Women Freemasons

[dfreybur]

Today teaching men to be men is not considered to be important.

Neither is teaching women to be women. Both are needed in our society even though, maybe even especially because, both roles are evolving rapidly.

Other than Masonry, teaching role models have been ceded to families with societal evolution happening too fast for most to react plus sports that seems too focus too much on winning to put value on sportsmanship and trade off between cooperation and competition. Now the type of sport focus on winning is now being taught to girls as well.

It's getting to the point were women need groups that teach a wide perspective on femininity even more than men need groups that teach a wide perspective on masculinity. We've got lodge and Boy Scouts (until folks notice that they are now a popcorn selling business).

In my Mom's generation there were all sorts of groups only for women. Now my wife has trouble finding even one. The cookie selling business aspect of the Girls Scouts long ago triggered anti-discrimination rules to force them to start taking boys. Masonry emerged in a time when women had more groups to chose from than men. Now that table has turned.

 

[Ripcord22A]

Dfreybur are you saying that winning isn't important?

 

[dfreybur]

Dfreybur are you saying that winning isn't important?

Sports are supposed to be taught primarily for sportsmanship and secondarily for competition. Winning is less important than sportsmanship.

A man wins or loses gracefully in sports. A man works hard to win in sports. The order and relative importance of these two matters.

"It's not whether you win or lose it's how you play the game" to some extent. "It's not whether you win or lose but how you act when either happens" to a greater extent.

Out society has gotten to the point that we need to teach sportsmanship in Disney movies like the ending of Cars.

There are values more important than winning. There are values less important than winning. This type of relative judgment is important to learn.

 

[Ripcord22A]

I see your point brother but the way i look at it if we teach our children that winning isnt important then they will transfer that in to.other aspects of.life...ie school, job/career. They will be like "eh i didnt pass but i tried" or " eh the other guy got the promotion i deserved but at least i tried real hard...good for him!" No. Obviously you didn't try hard enough. If you aren't taught during your primary years that winning is important you won't live up to your full potential....just my opinion

 

[pointwithinacircle2]

I had to re-read this page twice to find the point of disagreement. I believe it is here:

There are values more important than winning. There are values less important than winning.

What I disagree with is the words "more" and "less". For me, saying that winning is "more" important or "less" important is like saying that the pillar of Strength is "more" or "less" important that than the pillars of Wisdom or Beauty. Each Pillar expresses a specific attribute of man. Masonry is supported by Three Great Pillars. If the Pillars are not equal how will our Masonry be level?

This type of relative judgment is important to learn.

When I was a boy my brother and I used to spend a week at my aunt and uncle's farm in the country. The summer that I turned 12 they took in two foster children. They were older, 14 and 15, tough kids from bad homes. They were intruders in my family and I didn't like them from the moment I saw them. One night after chores we were playing tag in the barn. I was the youngest and smallest and when I got tagged I was out of breath and didn't have a chance of catching the older, faster kids. I took off after one of the hated foster kids anyway, even though he was the oldest and I didn't have a chance of catching him. I was frustrated and wanted to cry but I didn't give up. He was laughing and whooping, knowing I didn't have a chance of catching him. As he glanced over his shoulder to see me falling further and further behind the look on his face changed, he stopped, and I ran into him. He looked down, smiled at me, screamed "I'm it", and took off after the other boys. Maybe he lost that footrace, or maybe just wanted to win something different that day. In those few seconds I learned something that you couldn't have explained to me with 10,000 words. You can call him a loser if you want, but if you do it in front of me you are going to have an argument on your hands.

 

[Ripcord22A]

FPoF?

 

[Ripcord22A]

Ah ok, just re-read your post.....so you are an irregular mason?

 

[CantorArcani]

I've been a Mason for twenty years. I have been sharing a lodge with women now for over a decade. One of those women my eldest daughter. I would never go back.

 

[CantorArcani]

I have mixed feelings about this. I voted no , but would accept it if it did happen. I would hold no resentment towards any of the women joining the Lodge and would treat them as Brothers... or Sisters.....or whatever we would call them. I do feel however that a "Fraternity" should be for men only and a "Sorority" for women only. I would not try to join a sorority just like I would not want to join Women's Only Freemasonry. I think that both sexes should respect those boundaries.

And another thing on Womens Only Freemasonry, I saw a Documentary where a WO Freemason said that unlike Modern Freemasonry their rituals had never been leaked or exposed. So this would mean, I guess, that they have different ritual, signs and grips? Well then how can they call themselves Freemasons?

There are literally dozens of rites and rituals. Many of them are still practiced throughout the world. The original speculative rituals are far different than what you would recognize today.

 

[CantorArcani]

I think Beathard has hit the nail on the head... The truth is that I think *most* women wouldn't be interested anyway. Sure there was a time in every girl's life when she tried to break into the "NO GURLZ ALLOWEDD" meetings in the treehouse... But we're past that, right?

For me, Masonry meant a lot, and was exciting and deep and beautiful. I was initiated into the OES, and while it was deep and beautiful, it didn't have the same impact on me; didn't grab me like blue lodge did. So I think it's accurate to say that masonry is really intended FOR MEN and won't have the same impact on women, in the same way that OES is for women and their MM husbands. As an unmarried man, OES didn't fulfill any necessary roles in my life, like the lodge does, and I'd be willing to bet that on the other side of the coin, most women would feel the same way about the Craft degrees as I felt about the OES.

OES isn't Masonry. Comparing OES to women's freemasonry is like comparing a baloney sandwich to a prime steak. Apples and oranges.

As far as interest it's true the majority of women wouldn't be interested in Freemasonry but the majority of men aren't either, just look at the numbers. As far as Freemasonry being intended for men it depends on what in specific you are talking about. The Women's Grand Lodge of Belgium for an example is intended for women. LDH and the like are intended for both.

Gen Z isn't as interested or accepting of gender exclusivity. The UGLE acknowledges women freemasons and they even do joint events with women grand lodges in the UK. It may take another 20 years but eventually in order to survive women will be included.

 

[CantorArcani]

The bigger question is how do you recognize a co-masonry lodge if by the very definition it violates the landmark of being a man?

Doesn't violate their landmarks. They are their own sovereign jurisdiction. I'm sure they don't accept the authority of outside jurisdictions and visa versa.

 

[Glen Cook]

Doesn't violate their landmarks. They are their own sovereign jurisdiction. I'm sure they don't accept the authority of outside jurisdictions and visa versa.

You may have won the necroposting award for this group, responding to posts over ten years old.

 

[CantorArcani]

You may have won the necroposting award for this group, responding to posts over ten years old.

I try

 

[Winter]

You may have won the necroposting award for this group, responding to posts over ten years old.

And not just one!