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Is Christianity really compatible with Freemasonry?

pointwithinacircle2

Rapscallion
Premium Member
.....the form adapts to the time and the culture and is not the essence of Freemasonry.
The work of a Mason is to discover the essence buried beneath the form. This is not only true of Masonry but of life as well. It is a difficult journey that, in Masonry, is called the search for the lost word. It is an appropriate allegory. A word is a symbol for something. The form of a word can be a sound, combination of letters, or some other symbol. But the essence of a word is something other than the form. Form is a like a vehicle which carries the essence. Masonic Ritual, Lodges, Traditions, History, etc, are the forms, the vehicles, which carry the essence. Any attempt to discuss the essence must be carried out using the some type of forms, some symbolism which is by its very nature is less than complete.
 

BryanMaloney

Premium Member
Congratulations on being so pedantic that you completely missed the point.

Congratulations on deciding to resort to ad hominem when you fail to actually make your point in a way that is understood. You are free to now hurl more personal insults as a substitute for actually speaking plainly and actually stating your allege "point".
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
Okay, then, so it's the consensus of the "enlightened" that there actually are no standards in Freemasonry?
I don't know who might encompass or be included in this "enlightened" group that you allude to and I don't think that was the point of your posted response so I shall not linger upon it any further.

That being said....

The Standards of any Freemasonic Group determine Regularity for that Group and that Group alone.

When such Standards are compatible with other Groups and each Group seek to obtain Recognition from the other, negotiations start toward that end.

Those that get past the Recognition exercise may or may not move toward inter-visitation.
 

hanzosbm

Premium Member
The work of a Mason is to discover the essence buried beneath the form. This is not only true of Masonry but of life as well. It is a difficult journey that, in Masonry, is called the search for the lost word. It is an appropriate allegory. A word is a symbol for something. The form of a word can be a sound, combination of letters, or some other symbol. But the essence of a word is something other than the form. Form is a like a vehicle which carries the essence. Masonic Ritual, Lodges, Traditions, History, etc, are the forms, the vehicles, which carry the essence. Any attempt to discuss the essence must be carried out using the some type of forms, some symbolism which is by its very nature is less than complete.

I agree completely. Ask 10 Masons what the "true" meaning of a point within a circle is and you'll get 11 answers. How can one say that the purpose of Freemasonry isn't compatible with Christianity when we all have different ideas about what the "true" purpose of Freemasonry is? You get out of Masonry what you put into it. If you don't want to do something you perceive as being unChristian, then don't. I love when the anti's say things like "you're unknowing worshipping Satan!". How does one unknowingly worship anything? Worship is intent and adoration, you can't do it on accident.
 

GKA

Premium Member
The York Rite is Christian, It originated in Ireland, (popular speculation), and was established here in America by Thomas Smith Webb sometime in 1799
It expands upon the blue lodge basics and there is nothing that I have found which is contradictory to blue lodge, therefore I can conclude that Freemasonry and Christianity are compatible, unless the Christians want to hunt for heretics, ( just joking )
 

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
The York Rite is Christian, It originated in Ireland, (popular speculation), and was established here in America by Thomas Smith Webb sometime in 1799
It expands upon the blue lodge basics and there is nothing that I have found which is contradictory to blue lodge, therefore I can conclude that Freemasonry and Christianity are compatible, unless the Christians want to hunt for heretics, ( just joking )
I'm unsure of which part of the York Rite you speak. As to HRA only, the current thought is summed up at Wiki (though there are errors in other parts of the article):
Fredericksburg Lodge in Virginia lists a conferral of the Royal Arch degree on December 22, 1753.[13][14] There is also a Royal Arch Chapter noted in 1769 in Massachusetts (St. Andrew's Royal Arch Chapter in Boston, then known as Royall Arch Lodge), where the first Knights Templar degree was also conferred.[15] Through a report compiled by the Committee on History and Research appointed by the Grand Chapter of Massachusetts in 1953 and 1954, it was found that St. Andrew's Royal Arch Chapter was the oldest constituted Chapter in the Western Hemisphere, having been officially constituted April 9, 1769, though the records implied that the Chapter had been working prior to that date, and perhaps as early as 1762. The report also states that it is unknown whether the Fredericksburg Lodge in Virginia conferred only the Royal Arch degree or the entire series of degrees.[16]"

I am unclear why HRA would be thought to be Christian.
 
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coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
Wow, that's like, the best explanation of how Virtue relates to Wisdom that I have ever read. Thanks!
Here's another view that I posted recently upon Facebook for your consideration:

...The best definition of Wisdom that I have come across? Brace yourself!

Wisdom is what occurs when one's heart, head and spirit: ...
1) have been moved from Chaos to Order,
2) are all connected,
3) are all aligned and
4) and are in full agreement.

But that's just something I got from my Travels. Others might not see the Wisdom in this. (and Yes, you may quote me on this!)​

;-)

Coach N
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
The York Rite is Christian,
Would it be more accurate to say that "some aspects of the York Rite Path are Supportive of Christians, but not necessarily Christianity as a whole"?
It expands upon the blue lodge basics and there is nothing that I have found which is contradictory to blue lodge, ...
Bro.! For your consideration:

http://buildinghiram.blogspot.com/2013/08/the-lost-masters-word-acid-test.html

Once you read my thoughts on this, I believe you might see that any illusion of providing the Master's Word is incompatible with the Blue Lodge Teachings. Furthermore, doing so is the antithesis of what is being conveyed by the 3rd Degree Drama. Moreover, once examined carefully, it would be concluded that you have to be a Ruffian to buy into such a premise.

Of course, I am open to discourse on this if interested. ;)

...therefore I can conclude that Freemasonry and Christianity are compatible, unless the Christians want to hunt for heretics, ( just joking )
Heretic Hunt anyone? :D [snicker]
 
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pointwithinacircle2

Rapscallion
Premium Member
I: How do the Orders of Architecture Reveal The Word’s development and ultimate Use?
R: They show the path to Mastery for those who know how to configure them as a map of Masonic Progression.
I have asked a lot of Masons about the orders of architecture and have never before received this answer. It appears that much contemplation is needed on this concept. Where would I begin?
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
I have asked a lot of Masons about the orders of architecture and have never before received this answer. It appears that much contemplation is needed on this concept. Where would I begin?
AWESOME!!!!!

Sure Bro.! Here are steps that you can take to begin and even get you there.

Seek to Understand:
1) What each of the 5 columns actually represent symbolically.
2) Why the Greek columns are so important to Blue Lodge Work, and the Roman not so much.
3) Which column you enter as and why you have accepted this as the reality of a newbie.
4) Which column best represents a man who has ACTUALLY DONE the Blue Lodge Work, (and if you know what I mean by the Blue Lodge Work you are way ahead of the parrots that don't.)

Only after you have done the above seek to make an effort to create a map using the columns to show Masonic Progression.
 
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GKA

Premium Member
I stand corrected, some parts are Christian, I interpret Christianity in a broader sense which is not specifically correct
 

hanzosbm

Premium Member
AWESOME!!!!!

Sure Bro.! Here are steps that you can to begin and even get you there.

Seek to Understand:
1) What each of the 5 columns actually represent symbolically.
2) Why the Greek columns are so important to Blue Lodge Work, and the Roman not so much.
3) Which column you enter as and why you have accepted this as the reality of a newbie.
4) Which column best represents a man who has ACTUALLY DONE the Blue Lodge Work, (and if you know what I mean by the Blue Lodge Work you are way ahead of the parrots that don't.)

Only after you have done the above seek to make an effort to create a map using the columns to show Masonic Progression.
I am not YR, so I'll tread lightly on the subject. But I read a very in depth discussion on the different columns not long ago. Based on what I've been reading lately, I think it was most likely Wilmshurst, but I'll need to go back to confirm that.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
I am not YR, so I'll tread lightly on the subject. But I read a very in depth discussion on the different columns not long ago. Based on what I've been reading lately, I think it was most likely Wilmshurst, but I'll need to go back to confirm that.
What you quoted and commented upon is Blue Lodge only and not specific to the Degrees beyond the Blue Lodge, although understanding it would help your understanding of other degrees work.
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
Seek to Understand:
1) What each of the 5 columns actually represent symbolically.
2) Why the Greek columns are so important to Blue Lodge Work, and the Roman not so much.
3) Which column you enter as and why you have accepted this as the reality of a newbie.
4) Which column best represents a man who has ACTUALLY DONE the Blue Lodge Work, (and if you know what I mean by the Blue Lodge Work you are way ahead of the parrots that don't.)

Only after you have done the above seek to make an effort to create a map using the columns to show Masonic Progression.

Something like this then - Tuscan, member. Doric, JW. Ionic, SW. Corinthian, WM. Composite, PM.

Listed as such it becomes clear why the Greek ones are esteemed more in GL Freemasonry - They are the ones who must have votes at the GL level as well as representing our 3 ancient Grand Masters.

It renders the description of the Composite order hilarious to me when applied to PMs as well, being one myself! More decorative, chortle. Also it explains why I was puzzled the first time I encountered a lodge whose bylaws set chairs earlier in the progressive line to be elective. It does not explain the wide variation in GL rules about PMs voting.

Alternately it could be the basic 5 elected officers. That puts to the question - Which is TR and which is SE and thus gets called primitive? Yet another chortle.

Thanks you for suggesting to me that the orders might be organized in that way. This makes the 3, 5, 7 progression more interesting. Growth in person progressing through the degrees. Growth in service progressing through the line. Growth in society by progressing through education and its application.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
Something like this then - Tuscan, member. Doric, JW. Ionic, SW. Corinthian, WM. Composite, PM.

Listed as such it becomes clear why the Greek ones are esteemed more in GL Freemasonry - They are the ones who must have votes at the GL level as well as representing our 3 ancient Grand Masters.

It renders the description of the Composite order hilarious to me when applied to PMs as well, being one myself! More decorative, chortle. Also it explains why I was puzzled the first time I encountered a lodge whose bylaws set chairs earlier in the progressive line to be elective. It does not explain the wide variation in GL rules about PMs voting.

Alternately it could be the basic 5 elected officers. That puts to the question - Which is TR and which is SE and thus gets called primitive? Yet another chortle.

Thanks you for suggesting to me that the orders might be organized in that way. This makes the 3, 5, 7 progression more interesting. Growth in person progressing through the degrees. Growth in service progressing through the line. Growth in society by progressing through education and its application.
Yes, something like what you have shared.

You are applying it toward the Lodge though.

Try applying it toward Masonic Progression, not Freemasonic Progression and see if yet another Map unfolds. You could start by asking yourself what Work Focus do each of the GMs represent?
 
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