JW Reading the Law

JBD said:

I am more concerned that we are putting the "law" above the obligation and promises we made one to another to the point that we stifle the life out of Lodges. Ask some of those who have been on the receiving end in the past few years.

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The law SHOULD be a continuation of the obligations we made and a way to keep order instead of chaos. The law, just as Grand Lodge, is not some mystical creature, but is US. The Past Masters, current Masters and Wardens make the law. If they are bad then we need to get them changed. I sure know its not easy or fast but... Using the ALL program as an example it was passed that all lodges should administer it to all newly raised MM. Im sure most did for a year or so. Now its outdated and seldom done or enforced. IMHO it needs to be either updated or removed. There is some good information there once you weed past the outdated things. GL recently sent out a communication about reporting charitable deeds. Why hasnt this been done since it was declared "Mandatory" several years back?

JBD said:

It is a bit like getting hit going through an intersection with a green light while knowing the other guy is running the red and going to hit you. You had the "right of way" you were "RIGHT" in your position - unfortunately he was going 70 mph and you ended up "dead right". The final result is there was an impact and you could have avoided it by just applying some common sense.

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Bad analogy Brother... My wife, daughter and grandson got hit by someone like that last night that said they werent from around here and didnt see the light... WTF! You dont stop on red where your from? All there were taken to the ER by ambulance. Luckily other than a few bumps, bruises, cuts and dislocations and sprains they are fine and all home. Safe and sore. But thats 2 cars I own that have been totaled in the last 3 weeks!!!

JBD said:

I am more concerned that we are putting the "law" above the obligation and promises we made one to another to the point that we stifle the life out of Lodges. Ask some of those who have been on the receiving end in the past few years.

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I guess I took the meaning of this a bit different. Perhaps JBD can better explain how he meant it but the way I took this statement is as follows. I can either spend my time taking care of the obligation as it may come to my attention. Or I can spend the same time that I would have given to the relief of a brother, pouring over the "Law" to determine what my brothers are doing wrong. If I'm wrong in my interpretation JBD please forgive me. The law is supposed to add to the lodge and not distract from the growth. We can make the law a good or bad thing. Also on the ALL program, and any other programs which may have been instituted but not updated, if we have a mandate about using these programs and yet they are not updated then we are doing ourselves more harm then good. In my humble opinion.

Wingnut said:

My wife, daughter and grandson got hit by someone like that last night that said they werent from around here and didnt see the light... WTF! You dont stop on red where your from? All there were taken to the ER by ambulance. Luckily other than a few bumps, bruises, cuts and dislocations and sprains they are fine and all home. Safe and sore. But thats 2 cars I own that have been totaled in the last 3 weeks!!!

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Glad your family is doing good. Were you in wreck?

Thank you. No I wasnt in it I was on my way from work to a lodge when I got the call.

Wingnut said:

The law SHOULD be a continuation of the obligations we made and a way to keep order instead of chaos. The law, just as Grand Lodge, is not some mystical creature, but is US. The Past Masters, current Masters and Wardens make the law. If they are bad then we need to get them changed. I sure know its not easy or fast but... Using the ALL program as an example it was passed that all lodges should administer it to all newly raised MM. Im sure most did for a year or so. Now its outdated and seldom done or enforced. IMHO it needs to be either updated or removed. There is some good information there once you weed past the outdated things. GL recently sent out a communication about reporting charitable deeds. Why hasnt this been done since it was declared "Mandatory" several years back?



Bad analogy Brother... My wife, daughter and grandson got hit by someone like that last night that said they werent from around here and didnt see the light... WTF! You dont stop on red where your from? All there were taken to the ER by ambulance. Luckily other than a few bumps, bruises, cuts and dislocations and sprains they are fine and all home. Safe and sore. But thats 2 cars I own that have been totaled in the last 3 weeks!!!

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Wingnut - first of all I am VERY happy your family is OK. Cars and stuff can be replaced - people not so much. We have neighbors who are dealing with the other scenario literally as I type this. Prayers for the family of Alex Wilson would be in order. He grew up with my daughter and he crashed his car about 24 hours ago and is on life support in Fort Worth.



Now to your points - Yes I agree it should be a continuation of the obligations - I wasn't arguing that simply that some would rather beat you with the law book than tap you on the shoulder and whisper information. Thanks for making my point with your specific examples.

The analogy is totally accurate - the timing may suck given what you have been through, but the analogy is still spot on.

So I was sitting to a Masters Degree and we were doing the Lecture and the Sybolism of the star came up and I thought of this very thing. I totally agree with helping each other along the way but you have to admit that everyone that just because the person has a dues card makes them a Mason. Your heart has to be in it and I know many people that don't.

There have been times I have been discouraged by a "Mason" but "Masonry" has yet to let me down. Bros. Rhit, Tom, Scott, Anthony, Pace, Lester 1 & 2, Brock, and many many others show me that constantly. It is hard to keep the two seperated. All I can say is keep on keeping on. Do what you enjoy and others will take note.

Wingnut said:

Sadly I cant find it in the law book that its required, but Ive been told numerous times it is.

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It's in the the duties of the Worshipful Master in the installation ceremony.

"The Book of Constitutions you are to search at all times. Cause it to be read in your Lodge, that none may pretend to ignorance of the excellent precepts it enjoins."

Wingnut said:

I cant help but wonder, if we pick and chose which customs, ideas, traditions we follow and observe how long will Masonry be Masonry as it was intended?

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Someone earlier said the obligation should take precedence over the Law. I guess they took a different one than I did. In mine, I swore to obey the Law in its entirety- not just the parts I liked or agreed with.

Disclaimer: The following statements are made for the sake of discussion and education. It does not necessarily reflect the views of the person making the inquiry.​

Bill_Lins77488 said:

"The Book of Constitutions you are to search at all times. Cause it to be read in your Lodge, that none may pretend to ignorance of the excellent precepts it enjoins."

Someone earlier said the obligation should take precedence over the Law. I guess they took a different one than I did. In mine, I swore to obey the Law in its entirety- not just the parts I liked or agreed with.

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1) If that was a literal translation would that not be only the 5 pages of The Constitutions that happens to be in the Law book and not the actual Laws? Could one make that argument?

2) Does the obligation not cover the "Charges of a Freemason" and that cover "Moral Law"?

Could GL Law possibly condradict Moral Law thus allowing the GL Law not to be followed? (I know this would be very far fetched but I actually could see charges being brought up and this being a deffense as to why a Law may not be followed.)

owls84 said:

1) If that was a literal translation would that not be only the 5 pages of The Constitutions that happens to be in the Law book and not the actual Laws? Could one make that argument?

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Both times I was installed as WM, the Installing Marshal lifted the entire Law book when the Installing Officer said "The Book of Constitutions...". I'm thinkin' he was referring to the entire book & not just a part or 2 of it. YMMV.

owls84 said:

2) Does the obligation not cover the "Charges of a Freemason" and that cover "Moral Law"?

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I think it does.

owls84 said:

Could GL Law possibly condradict Moral Law thus allowing the GL Law not to be followed? (I know this would be very far fetched but I actually could see charges being brought up and this being a deffense as to why a Law may not be followed.)

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I think (& I would hope) that our system, as inefficient as it sometimes seems to be, would work to prevent a law from being passed that would contradict Moral Law. There's a lot of reviewing that happens between the time a proposed resolution arrives at GL and when it comes to the floor to be voted on. :beer:

JTM said:

it's in the WM's charge at installation that he cause the lawbook to be read during his meetings.

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It is in the WM's charge at installation and is very important. I have seen lodges where no one seemed to know what was allowed and what was not. Including Past Masters of the lodge.

As is the case when something like this happens we are at the mercy of perhaps one or two people in the lodge who can then decide what can and can not be done by a lodge. Having witnessed this and the discord and lack of harmony in the lodge room caused by the lack of light amongst the brethren and the perversion of law by someone with his own agenda to follow I heartily recommend that JW read (he is the lodge attorney) from the Book of Constitutions at each and every meeting.

This is a good point Bro. Chaplin (Elder). My question is since not everyone enjoys the Law or even understands how to read it. Could it be better serve if a Lodge had a workshop on how to read the laws to better understand them and perform administrative duties? I just worry that if we just read just to read we are not doing any good. I envision a floor school with hypoteticals and what ifs to better prepare the officers and stage situations and see how to act and have the JW say "Stop, this is how the Law says this situation should be handled."

I just worry that we have become complacent in just doing the minimum and doing things that don't work or that are not as effective when with a little brainstorming and effort we can knock it out of the park. Who is to say 10 years there may be a group to come up with a better method. Would you agree?

HKTidwell said:

I guess I took the meaning of this a bit different. Perhaps JBD can better explain how he meant it but the way I took this statement is as follows. I can either spend my time taking care of the obligation as it may come to my attention. Or I can spend the same time that I would have given to the relief of a brother, pouring over the "Law" to determine what my brothers are doing wrong.

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I don't think that is what he meant.

We read the law during the meeting, not to determine what is being done wrong, but to inform the brothers of what is correct. If we do not know what the law is how can we, as leaders of the craft, set them to work with good and wholesome instruction?

Having said that I pose the question; If the brothers are not conversant with the law how will they know if a brother is perverting the law for his own agenda?

Yes, I know that this is not supposed to happen, but I have seen it all too often in the last few years. It only takes one brother doing this to ruin and destroy a lodge.

The law is supposed to add to the lodge and not distract from the growth. We can make the law a good or bad thing.

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My point exactly, if you use the law to point out every thing a brother is doing wrong then you become part of the disharmony of the lodge room. But, if you use the opportunity of reading the law to the brethren then they will help make sure that it is not perverted for someone else's agenda.

owls84 said:

This is a good point Bro. Chaplin (Elder). My question is since not everyone enjoys the Law or even understands how to read it. Could it be better serve if a Lodge had a workshop on how to read the laws to better understand them and perform administrative duties?

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Point taken. Administrative duties are usually in the realm of the secretary. Because he is usually in office for a number of years he becomes, if we let him, de facto "authority" on the law. I have seen this lead to a secretary following his own agenda and causing disharmony within the lodge. All because brothers did not know the law.

I just worry that if we just read just to read we are not doing any good.

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I would not agree with that. I have had brothers come to me after a meeting and tell me that they did not know that the law on a particular subject and were surprised at what had been allowed by so-called knowledgeable brothers.

If we don't educate our brothers then how will they know if the laws are being circumvented for a brother's own gain? Again, I have seen this happen all too often in some lodges.

... I just worry that we have become complacent in just doing the minimum and doing things that don't work or that are not as effective when with a little brainstorming and effort we can knock it out of the park. Who is to say 10 years there may be a group to come up with a better method. Would you agree?

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You are correct. But we have to start somewhere. If we can educate the brothers on what is correct, according to law, then we can move forward, stop some of the archaic bickering and nay-sayers and lead ourselves, our brothers, our lodges, and eventually, our Grand Lodge into positive growth.

And isn't that one of the purposes of Masonry?

IMHO

I like the view point.

Well I think I explained what I meant, but I will try again. I never said the Obligation superceeded the Law, what I did say is that the Law does not superceed the obligation. They are part and parcel of one another. What I said in a later post was that instead of beating over someone over the head with the LAW book as the manner of some is, perhaps a tap on the shoulder and more restrained word to a Brother would be much more pleasant, much more congenial and effective PLUS would lead to more harmony.

My obligation says I will ST and I do that. I also will freely admit I do not have the law memorized and internalized like I do the obligation. It has also become clear through this discussion that the JW is NOT required to read the law in every meeting. It has also become clear that the directive is in the charge to the Master and not a "LAW" per se with article and section directed to it (and before someone jumps me about the charge having the same weight, that is not my point just there is no specific law). There is NO requirement for every meeting, no directive that the JW be the one to perform it, but rather the Master cause it to be read regularly. It would appear to me we have people pushing traditions versus requirements.

One thing discussion has done is caused me to read the LAW more and more often. It has also shown me that for some legalistic manuvering may be their preferred manner to deal with issues when common sense and civility may be in order to help improve a brother in Masonry; remembering we need to approach our brothers from where they are in their journey and knowledge - not from where we think we are.

I think I clarified what I meant so either agree, disagree or flame on.

JBD said:

Well I think I explained what I meant, but I will try again. I never said the Obligation superceeded the Law, what I did say is that the Law does not superceed the obligation. They are part and parcel of one another. ...

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Good point.

... What I said in a later post was that instead of beating over someone over the head with the LAW book as the manner of some is, perhaps a tap on the shoulder and more restrained word to a Brother would be much more pleasant, much more congenial and effective PLUS would lead to more harmony. ...

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Another good point. However I submit there are some brothers who, unless you show them in print, chapter and verse, will insist on continuing causing disharmony in the lodge based on faulty or false information pertaining to law.

...My obligation says I will ST and I do that. I also will freely admit I do not have the law memorized and internalized like I do the obligation. ...

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I find the brothers who do (or should IMHO) have the law memorized, et.al. are usually PMs, sitting Masters, or brothers who have, for one reason or another, been involved in legal (Masonic) wrangling within the lodge.

... It has also become clear through this discussion that the JW is NOT required to read the law in every meeting. It has also become clear that the directive is in the charge to the Master and not a "LAW" per se with article and section directed to it (and before someone jumps me about the charge having the same weight, that is not my point just there is no specific law). There is NO requirement for every meeting, no directive that the JW be the one to perform it, but rather the Master cause it to be read regularly. It would appear to me we have people pushing traditions versus requirements. ...

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True, there is no specific law that I can find. Having the JW read it, as opposed to another brother has value as he is the attorney for the lodge and should start to become (if he has not already done so) familiar with this part of his duties and preparation for his eventual trip to the East .

... One thing discussion has done is caused me to read the LAW more and more often. It has also shown me that for some legalistic manuvering may be their preferred manner to deal with issues when common sense and civility may be in order to help improve a brother in Masonry; remembering we need to approach our brothers from where they are in their journey and knowledge - not from where we think we are. ...

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As it has me. Unfortunately I have witnessed some of the most blatant unmasonic conduct by a brother under the guise of the laws of GL which was allowed to progress simply because the rest of the brothers did not know any better. This conduct alone has caused me to read and re-read the book. The actions were neither civil nor used common sense, merely the brother trying to force the lodge to bend to his will. (I once had a professor who said, "Common Sense isn't). It is also one of the reasons I joined this group. To learn more, become better as a Mason and as WM.

We all have stories regarding - both personal and heresy - brothers who have attempted to pervert the law and the Lodge to their own agenda.

Without knowledge of the law we cannot lead. Without leaders we will cease to exist.

Just MHO

owls84 said:

Could it be better serve if a Lodge had a workshop on how to read the laws to better understand them and perform administrative duties? I envision a floor school with hypoteticals and what ifs to better prepare the officers and stage situations and see how to act and have the JW say "Stop, this is how the Law says this situation should be handled."

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Bro. Josh, in 2005 we held GL workshops in every District doing exactly what you are proposing. I'd love to see us do it again.

Chaplin the Elder said:

Good point.



Another good point. However I submit there are some brothers who, unless you show them in print, chapter and verse, will insist on continuing causing disharmony in the lodge based on faulty or false information pertaining to law.

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Amen! Further, I feel the reason for having the JW read the Law regularly is for him to learn it by doing so. He is the officer responsible for enforcing it, after all.

Most of our Law was formulated in response to things that happened in the past. As many of us weren't around when some of these things happened, we cannot know what they were. To make decisions based only on what we personally know would not take the Law into account, & I do not feel that I personally possess all the wisdom accumulated by our Fraternity over the last 172 years. Thus I use the Law as a guide written by those who were solving our problems way before I was born.

In the workshops we had in 2005, there were two lessons. First, instead of reinventing the wheel, to check the book- chances are, whatever situation one is faced with has already been dealt with and a solution devised. Secondly, one needs to check the book each time. We tinker with the Law every year at the Grand Communication and just because you found the answer to a problem last year does not mean it is still the correct answer this year- the Law may have changed.

Brother Bill,

One of the points that Bro. owls84 stated was that he felt

...What I said in a later post was that instead of beating over someone over the head with the LAW book as the manner of some is...

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I believe that we, that is the Master, is charged with making sure the law is read to inform and teach the brothers, not to beat them over the head with and use the reading as a way of pointing out what the brother(s) did wrong.

As a Master I feel we should follow that old adage, "Praise in public, chastise in private." During my year in the West I found, in my lodge, the people who complained the most publicly about the law being violated where several Past Masters. Interestingly enough every time I checked the law I found out that they were not only wrong in their interpretation of the law but, in some cases, didn't even know the law to begin with.

Please understand, this is not a complaint nor a public airing of private lodge issues but a statement to illustrate my point. Since becoming Master the complaints have stopped cold. Part of this can be, I feel, attributed to the fact that I have caused the JW to read from the law at every stated meeting. The first 2 stated meetings I choose the articles to be read (these pertained to specific issues affecting the Lodge at that moment.) For the rest of my year, issues not withstanding, I will let the JW select the articles to be read.

I have found that the brothers actually like the law to be read. The reasons that I have been told about are; from the younger brothers, "It is good to know the law and understand what it is about." From the older brothers, "I'm glad you read that section. It will put a stop to Bro. AB's constant complaining about....."

One of the side effects of having the law read that I have found - at least in my lodge - is that with knowledge comes the power of the brothers to collectively stop one man's agenda and thereby promote peace and harmony within the lodge. This ensures the growth of the lodge and helps the brothers return to lodge who have stopped coming to lodge due to the disharmony caused by a few who feel they are the only ones who have the right to say what the lodge or brother can or cannot do based on their interpretation of the law. Generally speaking, upon further research, I have found that their privileged interpretation, when not just incorrect, was blatantly in violation of said law. This is what I mean when I speak of a brother with an agenda.

I know that this reply is rather long but I feel so strongly about educating the brothers that I wanted my position clear.

When we educate we remove the power of a few to dominate and pervert our brotherhood towards their own ends. The brothers may choose to ignore their educational opportunities within the lodge (just as some do outside the lodge) but they will not be able to use the excuse of, "I didn't know" because there will always be a brother who was there when that part of the law was read in lodge.

Just MHO

IMHO, and for what its worth, part of the reading should include a discussion. Questions that cant be answered should be directed to the DDGM who can then take them to the GM if there isn't a known answer or precedence. That is part of their duty after all.

I wish we actually had more open discussions in a lodge room, and not as formal. I agree 100% about the formality but either we need to have open civil discussion in the lodge or have a forum (no not this one) where discussion can take place. I miss the quarterly education that the districts/regions used to do (havent seen one in a long time...).

Wingnut said:

IMHO, and for what its worth, part of the reading should include a discussion. Questions that cant be answered should be directed to the DDGM who can then take them to the GM if there isn't a known answer or precedence. That is part of their duty after all.

I wish we actually had more open discussions in a lodge room, and not as formal. I agree 100% about the formality but either we need to have open civil discussion in the lodge or have a forum (no not this one) where discussion can take place. I miss the quarterly education that the districts/regions used to do (havent seen one in a long time...).

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I agree. In fact, until we started reading the law during the meetings we had a few brothers who would force their viewpoint during a discussion as "being the law" and (this one I LOVE) "Grand Lodge will come down and pull our charter if we do that". A brother was actually called on that one, because we had checked with GL and they not only were in favor of what we were going to do but wanted to know how they could help us make it a success.

The item in question you may ask? Opening a Community Builder's award to the general public.

Discussion is always good, IMHO, because it helps bring new ideas, thoughts, and changes (when and where they are needed) to the forefront. Of course, it is the sole responsibility of the Master to make sure that the discussion is orderly and does not create disharmony.