Am I an arse?

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by David612, Feb 9, 2021.

  1. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    Gents,
    Forgive the crude title and following rambling post.
    At a recent meeting I found myself particularly frustrated with the lacklustre delivery of work, after one year of not meeting no one had learnt any new charges fluently, delivery was disjointed and at times unintelligible and still the standard occurrences of every meeting still needed prompting.
    I feel that at some point simply refusing a brother a charge or an officer position is the correct thing to do for the benefit of the candidate- it’s not about excluding that brother but rather preserving the initiatory experience for the candidate.


    Am I being an arse? Taking it too seriously?
    How would you tackle this?
     
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  2. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    The tide is going out. Be graceful as you watch
     
  3. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    Are you in a position to deny an officer position or to not assign a part?
     
  4. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    Yes,I am.
     
  5. Winter

    Winter Premium Member

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    An honest assessment of of degree proficiency is important in order to provide the most meaningful experience for the candidate. Find a half dozen Brothers willing to commit to making a degree team for your Lodge. Do something, anything, if it might help inspire change. There are resources out there. But poor degree work is the worst disservice we can do to our candidates.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
     
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  6. Keith C

    Keith C Registered User

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    In my Lodge there undeniably some Brethren who struggle with the work, but I make sure that anyone playing a role in a Degree Conferal is proficient. Do mistakes happen?, yes none of us are perfect, but generally the work is done well. This means that perhaps someone who holds a specific Chair for our Stated Meetings has some other role in Degrees. We also have a rehersal where we go through the entire Degree work no farther out than a week before the Degree, so we KNOW everyone knows the work.

    I am a little confused with you saying that you do have control over who plays what role, but you do not seem to acknowledge any part in the lack of proficiency of those who had been assigned various roles. It is important that Brothers are taught and proved proficient in the Labor of the Office before they are put in the Chair of that office.
     
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  7. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    I have to agree that it is kind of frustrating and sad to watch someone get advanced through the chairs that struggle with their part at each station when simply opening and closing the lodge and then watch them do the same as Master.
     
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  8. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    Thought you said in Reddit that you volunteered to do a part but the offer was declined.
     
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  9. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    some parts are for designated officers so I wasn’t ever an option to fill a role for another officer, plus with the role I was in, that would have been quite odd indeed.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2021
  10. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    Honestly I couldn’t bear that for a year, I think there are plans to circumvent this happening but it’s not the right thing to do for a particular brother either.
     
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  11. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    This is your edited post:
    It is a change from :

    “You need to reread it, I said that I offered to do all of the charges, however some parts are for designated officers.
    I suppose I could offer to do all the officer roles though that may be a little odd.”

    You had replied “Yes” to my question above asking if you were in a “position to deny an officer position or to not assign a part?”

    Why did you allow them to be officers and to take these assignments?
     
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  12. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    Because of the reason quoted above? I can’t do everything. And officers have been in roles for years, I can stop it happening again but I can’t remove them.
     
  13. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    Your jurisdiction doesn’t allow removal of officers?
     
  14. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    1) Maybe
    2) Maybe
    3) Realize it's not about "ritual"; it never was, is, or will be. It's about being with your Brothers and accepting them for who they are. The work" is just an excuse to be with them since most guys don't do "relationships."

    BTW - How you "treat" these "sub-performing" ritualist, especially in front of candidates, is a direct message to candidates as to how they will be treated. Is that the message you want to give them?
     
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  15. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    I would suggest the BTW is the most important part of the statement.
     
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  16. Keith C

    Keith C Registered User

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    Absolutly.

    Firstly you shouldn't put someone in a position to fail. If they don't know the work, don't have them try to do it "live."

    If they DO know the work and "mess up" in the delivery realize - 1) We are all human and make mistakes. 2) It wasn't intentional. 3) The candiatate has NO IDEA what it was supposed to be. Over reaction to a mistake is a major part in lessening the Candidate experience, demoralizing the Brother who made the mistake, and instilling an attitude of not wanting to participate by others who fear they might make an error someday.
     
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  17. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    To clarify I don’t react to, comment on or correct bad delivery in the lodge as it isn’t my offical role to correct these brethren.
    While I agree that the candidate won’t know if you miss a line, they know something isn’t right when the DC needs to read the work and the presenter repeats after him- there is no shame or problem missing a word or line, it shows they know the vast majority of it, the issue is when they know none of it.
     
  18. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    Little known fact (to some) - Ritual is actually read in a quite a few jurisdictions elsewhere...
     
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  19. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    Well aware of this fact, my jurisdiction mandates the ritual to be memorised, with the exclusion of the chaplain who may may read portions of scripture.
     
  20. TheThumbPuppy

    TheThumbPuppy Registered User

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    I'd like to nitpick on the title of this thread.

    "Am I an arse?" refers to someone's general personality. For instance, "I am generous" would refer to a personality aspect.

    "Am I being an arse?" would refer to a specific situation. For instance "I'll give you a C- and I am being generous".

    In this case, I find that "Am I being an arse?" is a better title for this thread as it refers to a specific situation.

    While I find that you're quite tightly wound up on this matter (you catch more flies with honey than vinegar – and incidentally even more with faeces, but that's a separate story), I do think that actions should have consequences. Stocks and pillory in the town square may be too harsh a punishment, but what if the forgetful brothers had to serve dinner, wash the dishes and clean the toilets while wearing a French maid outfit? Would that be too much of an officers' mess or public school tomfoolery?
     
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