Exorcism

[Rauchbier1987]

All well understood though my original question of a religion that can join Freemasonry devoid of negative spirits goes unanswered with the question of if the negative spirits in Buddhism can influence men. I do love learning about the many types of theology.

Brother Morris

 

[WEST TX MASON]

Going back to the original question... I'm not saying I have all the knowledge but I go back to the bible and try to find my answers through my lord...

And in the synagogue there was a man who had the spirit of an unclean demon, and he cried out with a loud voice, “Ha! What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God.†But Jesus rebuked him, saying, “Be silent and come out of him!†And when the demon had thrown him down in their midst, he came out of him, having done him no harm. And they were all amazed and said to one another, “What is this word? For with authority and power he commands the unclean spirits, and they come out!†Luke 4:33-36


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[Rauchbier1987]

Amen amen.

Brother Morris

 

[JohnnyFlotsam]

I have yet to find a religion that isn't based solely in theology that does not have a negative entity in it somewhere. Though it is quite possible I am wrong but what religion in Freemasonry does not brother? I am always interested in learning more, can you please elaborate on your reply?

First of all, let's be clear; there is no "religion in Freemasonry". To be sure, our order is made up entirely of "religious" men, at least insofar as every last one has professed a belief in some deity, but to proceed on the assumption that all of them follow a religion that promulgates this or that specific belief (the existence of "negative spirits", for example) is a mistake.

That's right, not all religions hold that there's some malign entity that makes us do "evil" things. If you haven't found any yet, you have not looked hard enough.

You seem to be focused on (biased by) the prevalence of the Abrahamic religions, or the "religions of the book". That's not uncommon and entirely understandable for most of us born and raised in the western world. More broadly, there are many "revealed" religions that have one or more volumes of sacred text that codify "the word of G*d". There are many others that have no such thing, at least not in printed and bound form. The man who made me a Mason walked a spiritual path that traditionally passes it's formal spiritual lessons mouth-to-ear, though the really important "lessons" on many such paths (Native American, BTW) are experiential in nature. In other words, no book. Try being a little less literal when you consider what our "Volume of Sacred Law" actually means.

 

[Rauchbier1987]

Brother Morris

 

[Rauchbier1987]

You seem to misunderstand me. I was unaware that there were native American religions that had only one god and no negative beings, thus making them eligible for Freemasonry. What are the names of these religions so I can expand my understanding? I do love studying different theologies

Brother Morris

 

[JohnnyFlotsam]

You seem to misunderstand me. I was unaware that there were native American religions that had only one god and no negative beings, thus making them eligible for Freemasonry. What are the names of these religions so I can expand my understanding? I do love studying different theologies

Brother Morris

You're probably leaning on an interpretation of "Landmark 19" that references "one true and everlasting God", or similar verbiage. Such a tortured interpretation is, I submit, out of place in our order. Indeed, every version of "The Ancient Landmarks" that Google seems to index just says "God". But let's set aside the numerical distinctions for the moment. "God" or "one true and everlasting God" doesn't really matter if the candidate has the faith to believe that there is a power far greater than anything in this world and is willing to say so. To assert that such a supernatural entity must be interpreted as a single conscious being is, IMHO, more than a little presumptuous. But that's just me. Others may choose to believe just that. The point is that we should not be reading anything into the candidate's answer to the question. It is for him and him alone to answer. Nor should we be interpreting the "validity" of that answer based on what we think we know about his religion.

As to religions that don't "believe in" the existence of a malevolent spirit, I can think of no handier example than Wicca. Though the deities recognized in modern Wicca's various "traditions" vary widely, it is generally true that they hold no belief in a malevolent or evil spirit, considering that "good" or "evil" are matters of choice. Interestingly, this lines up nicely with Judaism's concept of "yetzer hara" or "evil inclination".

As for Native American beliefs, my knowledge and understanding is limited, but (to generalize a great deal) the closest one might come is Coyote, or "The Trickster". The nature and motivation of Coyote varies dramatically from people to people, but almost always the purpose of his deceptions are to convey a lesson, as distinct from temping a soul to do "evil" for evil's sake.

 

[LittleHunter]

If Rauchbier1987 or anyone else has questions about the Lakota Sioux religion (a Native American religion) message me privately. It is a beautiful religion that helped me find God... But this isn't the forum for a discussion of theology.


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[crono782]

If Rauchbier1987 or anyone else has questions about the Lakota Sioux religion (a Native American religion) message me privately. It is a beautiful religion that helped me find God... But this isn't the forum for a discussion of theology.

Holding discussion privately is completely your choice. Just wanted to point out that the sub forum Philosophy, Religion, and Spirituality (which you are currently in) is entirely okay with discussion of theological topics and is not barred in this sub forum. Cheers.

 

[dfreybur]

I was unaware that there were native American religions that had only one god

The idea of the Great Spirit clearly counts for a yes answer to the question about belief in a supreme being on the petition.

and no negative beings

Earlier there was discussion of beings in Buddhism being in a current status that can be changed. Here Bro JohnnyFlotsam mentioned Wicca. There are lots of Wiccan brothers. He also explained coyote which is as much as I've ever learned on the topic in native faiths. I suggest that if you study The Analects of Confucius or the Tao Te Ching of Lao Tsu you will find no negative beings. Whether wider readings of those two ancient faiths will find negative beings I'm not sure but no negative beings appear in the Dhama Padha of Buddha yet they do appear in wider readings of Buddhism. Not sure where the borders are.

thus making them eligible for Freemasonry

That's a different topic. Monotheism was dropped as a requirement in the early 1700s. Unless your petition was as explicit as cited by Bro JohnnyFlotsam you may believe your jurisdiction has the requirement but it does not. I've read a lot of petitions and so far only New York has that wording among the ones I've read. Likely a small number of other states.

The way your post is worded is ambiguous. It could be read to say you think religions with negative beings don't qualify. I'm sure you did not mean that. Negative beings appear in the Old Testament (Mosaic and later books so Torah and Tenakh), New Testament and Koran at least in the JCI family plus in the sacred writings of many other faiths that have Masons among their members.

 

[Rauchbier1987]

Precisely. I was intending it to be read as a whole stating that I was unaware of any religions devoid of negative beings but having a monotheistic basis that were accepted into the fraternity. Does Freemasonry accept the religions based solely in philosophy now as well?

Brother Morris

 

[LittleHunter]

What does "devoid of negative beings" mean?


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[BryanMaloney]

Precisely. I was intending it to be read as a whole stating that I was unaware of any religions devoid of negative beings but having a monotheistic basis that were accepted into the fraternity. Does Freemasonry accept the religions based solely in philosophy now as well?

Freemasonry accepts no religion at all. Freemasonry requires assent to the existence of a being that could be described as "The Supreme Architect". That's it. There are no other "religious" criteria.

 

[Rauchbier1987]

Interesting. I took it to mean monotheistic. I'm learning new things each day. And devoid of negative beings means having no trace of negative beings brother littlehunter

Brother Morris

 

[JohnnyFlotsam]

Precisely. I was intending it to be read as a whole stating that I was unaware of any religions devoid of negative beings but having a monotheistic basis that were accepted into the fraternity. Does Freemasonry accept the religions based solely in philosophy now as well?

Freemasonry does not "accept" or "reject" any religions, Brother. It makes no such distinctions in that regard. None. It would be entirely inappropriate for you, me, an investigation committee, etc. to do so.
A candidate, on the other hand, must do so in order to answer the question regarding belief in the GAOTU. Again, that distinction is his and his alone to make.

 

[Rauchbier1987]

I see. I am learning a lot.

Brother Morris

 

[dfreybur]

I was intending it to be read as a whole stating that I was unaware of any religions devoid of negative beings but having a monotheistic basis that were accepted into the fraternity.

Like Neo-Platonism I suppose. I have not yet knowingly met a Neo-Platonic brother. For all I know I've attended lodge with a few without knowing.

There were plenty of practicing Deists who were lodge members during the US Revolution. A close friend "Doesn't believe in churches" - I think I spent a year of lunches discussing the issue with him before he got to seeing a supreme being as distinct from human organizations. I'd describe him as a deist. Not sure if he technically fits for the capital letter version.

Does Freemasonry accept the religions based solely in philosophy now as well?

As others have pointed out that's not the way it works. We accept individuals who answer "Yes" to the question "Do you believe in the existence of a supreme being?" and we don't get into details with them. Religions as such are irrelevant to that question other than to the degree an individual brother decides to tie the two together. That is to say if you, for yourself, tie the two topics together that's for yourself not for any other brother.

One example is Buddhist Masons. The brother who raised me is a practicing Buddhist. The Dhama Padha, words of Buddha, don't mention deity. Some sects address deity others don't. He decided to address the issue of deity and accept existence, so he petitioned. With him "Do you believe in the existence of a supreme being?" centers around the word existence and his path to a "Yes". Discussing religious issues with him away from our buildings can be fascinating.

There are plenty of polytheist Masons of various religions. The requirement for monotheism was dropped int he early 1700s. For me actually practicing freedom of religion versus just lip service was a make-or-break issue before I petitioned. I selected Shinto as one of the larger population world religions that is explicitly polytheist. I confirmed that Masonry is popular in Japan and that there are plenty of practicing Shinto among our brothers. Once I'd done that check I submitted my petition. "Seek and ye shall find" I've since encountered numerous polytheist brothers.

 

[Rauchbier1987]

That is very interesting. Thank you for all the information brother

Brother Morris

 

[cyd]

I feel that it's Mental illness as well as to some degree hypnotic suggestion on emotional suggestible. Certain people on t.v use to do that one . I am some what educated on hypnotism and I can see the method of induction . That is just my opinion .


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[ericmps]

Matthew 8:31 So the demons besought him, saying, If you cast us out, allow us to go away into the herd of swine.

Although I admit that I have not researched this enough I still find it interesting that such a thing is in the Bible.