First Grand Lodge

Discussion in 'History and Research' started by Buckeye, Jun 26, 2019.

  1. Buckeye

    Buckeye Registered User

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    What were the names of the four lodges that met at the Goose and Gridiron in 1717 to form the grand lodge? I can’t seem to find them in any of my books or with a quick internet search.

    Mike
     
  2. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    "The orginal four lodges were named for the place where they met:
    • Goose and Gridiron Ale-house in St. Paul's Church-yard;
    • Crown Ale-house in Parker's Lane near Drury's Lane;
    • Apple Tree Tavern in Charles Street, Covent Garden;
    • Rummer and Grapes Tavern in Channel Row, Westminster."
    http://www.thefleece.org/goose.html

    As I recall the oldest of the 4 lodges was 50 years old and the youngest just 5 years old. So where did they get their charters?

    To deal with this difficulty those lodges were later said to be time immemorial. I am sure that caused much amusement in the some 50 other lodges in London and Westminster.

    There is a suggestion that 2 of the 4 lodges were established only for the purpose of forming a grand lodge that was overtly loyal to the German king on the English throne. Most lodges at the time were inclined toward the Stewart line.

    "The organisation known as the Premier Grand Lodge of England was founded on 24 June 1717 as the 'Grand Lodge of London and Westminster'."

    I wonder why they made such a modest claim originally.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
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  3. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    Did they even have charters?

    And it was further speculated that the only reason for forming the grand lodge to begin with was to have quarterly dinner parties.

    Which is now thought to be a fabricated date used to to establish credibility within their written records...

    modest?
     
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  4. Buckeye

    Buckeye Registered User

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    Thanks for the information!!

    "So where did they get their charters?" I will have to go back and check some of my books but I believe a group of Master Masons back in the day could form a lodge wherever one was needed.

    Mike
     
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  5. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    Wait!?!?! Charters are an innovation?!?!?!
     
  6. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    Innovation is what we do best!
     
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  7. Luigi Visentin

    Luigi Visentin Registered User

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    Can you tell me, please, the source of this information? It is only for my research.

    As far as I know it tooks about one year to prepare the meeting (likely to make the necessary agreements), while I think that the date as chosen to overlap the date of December 27th. In other words the idea was to cancel the reference to Saint John the Apostle with Saint John the Baptist. Unfortunately for them this did not happen so we deal with two Saint John.
     
  8. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    Sure: http://freemasonsfordummies.blogspot.com/2016/09/is-official-date-of-our-founding-wrong.html
     
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  9. Luigi Visentin

    Luigi Visentin Registered User

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    Thank you. It seems interesting!
     
  10. Thomas Stright

    Thomas Stright Premium Member

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    And our Blue Lodges are Dry..... :/
     
  11. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    That varies by jurisdiction. My Mother Lodge had wine at dinner and drinks in the lounge until a certain fez club trashed the place one night. No more alcohol on the premises.
    My lodge here in California has wine and spirits at our Agape every month, in the lodge dining hall.
     
  12. Thomas Stright

    Thomas Stright Premium Member

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    Dry here in Texas....

    And not complaining at all, It's a change to be able to have gatherings where alcohol is not a factor.
    My consumption had dropped quite a bit since joining.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019 at 6:32 AM
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  13. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    Agreed, the attachment of alcohol to virtually every activity is draining and keeps me away from many events.
     
  14. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    Dr. Anderson lists the 'Four Old Lodges' as:

    1. At the Goose and Gridiron Ale-house in St. Paul's Churchyard.
    2. At the Crown Ale-house in Parker's Lane near Drury Lane.
    3. At the Apple-Tree Tavern in Charles Street, Covent Garden.
    4. At the Rummer and Grapes Tavern in Channel Row, Westminster.


    http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/goose_and_gridiron_ale-house.htm
     

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