Good Blog, then Irregular Blog

[nfasson]

Was following this blog for awhile:

http://freemasonryesoterica.tumblr.com

Has some really nice photos of Masonic paraphernalia and architecture, but then I noticed that the owner is a member of a Lodge that admits women, which he writes is Chartered from a Grand Lodge in France and not England.

He seems genuinely interested in Masonry and sought out joining, but even though he knew that the Lodge he was becoming a member of was Irregular, he chose it to make a statement about regular Lodges not allowing women.

What is the basic consensus when dealing with this issue? How do the Regular Lodges respond to those who want to join but are confused as to why it does not allow women? Is it seen as a problem for getting the younger generation to join up?




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[BroBook]

No man or body of men has authority
To change the O.B. "I think"


Bro Book
M.W.U.G.L. Of Fl: P.H.A.
Excelsior # 43
At pensacola

 

[Zack]

Simply stated. Freemasonry is a fraternity.

 

[dfreybur]

CoMasonry - In an emergency I'm not going to exchange dues cards. At a meeting I'm not going to attempt to pass one of their tilers or as a tiler allow one of their members to pass. There's plenty of room in between to be okay attending social events together. I have in the past been friends with a couple who were both CoMasons. I never did ask them when or where their lodge meets. No mystery how that worked out.

My jurisdictions don't admit women. I can't stop other jurisdictions from changing their stance on the topic and becoming irregular and not recognized. The relative population of jurisdictions speaks for itself - Male only jurisdictions have hundreds or thousands of times more members. Deciding to change your stance on gender clearly comes with a punishment far worse than I would bother doling out.

 

[jjjjjggggg]

Skipping the basic responses typical to discussing allowing women to join (i.e. "We are a fraternity", "there are orders like OES") I wanna share a little bit of a conversation I shared with my wife.

She said she understood the idea of freemasonry being a brotherhood and that we have obligations about being there for each other. She said she wouldn't be too happy if it were allowed for woman to join thinking what if a "sister" called a brother at two in the morning wanting "help" or if a male and female began getting too close because of the time spent together. It's not that she doesn't trust me, but she could see how the situation could put people into situations that might not be appropriate. She was imagining the awkward situation of a man and woman being "lodge family" and their spouses looking in from the outside.

Of course, I'm sure co-masonry doesn't deal with this issue, or maybe it does, I don't know... but my wife understands my need for deep meaningful relationships with other men that exclude women... that's why they call it a fraternity. She has no interest in wanting to be a part of that, especially since we already share a unique bond that I'm unable to share with anyone else due to my vows with her.


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[nfasson]

Skipping the basic responses typical to discussing allowing women to join (i.e. "We are a fraternity", "there are orders like OES") I wanna share a little bit of a conversation I shared with my wife.

She said she understood the idea of freemasonry being a brotherhood and that we have obligations about being there for each other. She said she wouldn't be too happy if it were allowed for woman to join thinking what if a "sister" called a brother at two in the morning wanting "help" or if a male and female began getting too close because of the time spent together. It's not that she doesn't trust me, but she could see how the situation could put people into situations that might not be appropriate. She was imagining the awkward situation of a man and woman being "lodge family" and their spouses looking in from the outside.

Of course, I'm sure co-masonry doesn't deal with this issue, or maybe it does, I don't know... but my wife understands my need for deep meaningful relationships with other men that exclude women... that's why they call it a fraternity. She has no interest in wanting to be a part of that, especially since we already share a unique bond that I'm unable to share with anyone else due to my vows with her.


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Great points. I agree... why complicate the situation like that? You're searching for that commonality of thinking and having women in the mix brings a whole host of issues that detract from that.

I don't know if this guy is trying to be overly progressive or just meet women, but it seems like a lot of trouble for little reward.



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[JJones]

As it was said before, we are a fraternity. In addition to that, we are a private organization that has the right to be as selective or exclusive as we want. As a fraternity, we only allow men to join, there's nothing sexist, backward, or negative about that.

I've only seen this come up on the internet and I've never had to have this discussion in person. Of course, I'm in Texas where there's still enough common sense for (most) people to understand why women can't join a fraternity.

It's also had no negative affect on petitions and the younger generations appear to be growing more and more interested in joining in my area.

 

[CantorArcani]

I have shared a lodge with women for over ten years. I have never run into an inappropriate interaction or situation that entire time. We understand that we are there to do common work and everyone acts appropriately.

One thing I want to mention is that we all have our jurisdictions, jurisdictions have their rules. It seems like most here are in mainstream jurisdictions that exclude women. It is your choice to belong to such a jurisdiction and I hope the work is improving you and your life. On that topic my jurisdiction doesn't prohibit women, after being in both gender inclusive works better for me. To each their own.

 

[MarkR]

I'm curious: when you were in a Grand Lodge of California lodge, did your obligation include not being present at the making of a woman a Mason? How did you reconcile that with your decision to join LDH? Do you consider your obligations to be something easily set aside? I'm more troubled by a man who leaves regular Masonry for co-Masonry than I am someone who goes the co-Masonry directly. The latter aren't violating their obligations.

 

[CantorArcani]

I'm curious: when you were in a Grand Lodge of California lodge, did your obligation include not being present at the making of a woman a Mason? How did you reconcile that with your decision to join LDH? Do you consider your obligations to be something easily set aside? I'm more troubled by a man who leaves regular Masonry for co-Masonry than I am someone who goes the co-Masonry directly. The latter aren't violating their obligations.

Thanks for the question. The way I look at it I demitted, no longer being a part of that jurisdiction. My previous obligation was to that jurisdiction and within it's regulation. I didn't go behind the back of that jurisdiction and sit in a lodge with women, I did the honorable thing and removed myself from that jurisdiction. As I understand it when you demit you are no longer a member, no longer a Mason under their governance that obligation belongs to them.

 

[MarkR]

Our ritual says obligations cannot be repudiated or laid aside. Your mileage may vary.

 

[CantorArcani]

Our ritual says obligations cannot be repudiated or laid aside. Your mileage may vary.

I'll put it this way. Not sure if you have ever been married or not, but when you get married you make a vow until death do you part. Now, if you get a divorce do you still honor that vow? My obligation within the GL of CA belongs to them. I served the GL of CA for a decade. I made many life long brothers, I grew as a person and I have nothing but good to say about it. As time went on I changed, my needs changed and it was time to move on. My eldest decided she wanted to join the Craft. I'm not sure if you have a child who wanted to join you in the Craft but it is a very good feeling and a high honor. There was no way I wasn't going to be a part of it so I had to make a choice. Had she been born a boy I wouldn't have had to make that choice, it's unfair but it is the way it is for now.

Being there for her was the greatest moment in my Masonic life. Being able to share a lodge with her has been light in my life. The women I now call brothers have made me not only a better Mason but a better man.

I'm happy brother. I am every bit the Mason I was twenty years ago and my jurisdiction sees me as such.

happy new year.

 

[Glen Cook]

Thanks for the question. The way I look at it I demitted, no longer being a part of that jurisdiction. My previous obligation was to that jurisdiction and within it's regulation. I didn't go behind the back of that jurisdiction and sit in a lodge with women, I did the honorable thing and removed myself from that jurisdiction. As I understand it when you demit you are no longer a member, no longer a Mason under their governance that obligation belongs to them.

A démit is not a resignation; it is not a divorce. In many jurisdictions such a mason is still subject to masonic discipline.

 

[CantorArcani]

A démit is not a resignation; it is not a divorce. In many jurisdictions such a mason is still subject to masonic discipline.

It was made clear to me that I am no longer a member in my old GL or subject to their Masonic discipline. Even if I was what are they going to do? Kick me out? I already left.