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Grand Lodge of the United States

Morris

Premium Member
What are some thoughts about forming an overarching Grand Lodge for the US? I know I've read about this idea in the past (couldn't find a link) and think it would have many positives. I'm sure we could go on for days about the potential negatives, because that's human nature, but is there some validity to this type of creation?


Jeff
 

Morris

Premium Member
Obviously the first question would be "why" and I'm not sure there really are enough pros to back this idea.

The first pros in my mind are governing laws over PHA and Washington (for lack of a better word). Another would be, in theory, ease of travel and it would also put a face to our lodges.

Again, not sure I could ever justify the "why" but...

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Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
1. Grand Lodges jealously guard their sovereignty.
2. You think there are GL politics now? I have been involved in GL, national and international officer lines. I'm not sure we really want to go down that road with our GLs.
3. I can't really see anything to recommend it, either. We can already travel between GL's. Itv would be another layer of Masonic government.
4. Consensus can also be gained through the regional conferences and the CGMINA.
5. Let's get AASR NJ and SJ to merge first. That would be a winner.
 

Brother JC

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
Which ritual would this GL use? Would it be Ancient or not? Would it be in amity with PHA? These aren't negatives, merely the first worms in a very large can.
I also have to ask the ever-important "why?"
 

BroBill

Site Benefactor
Site Benefactor
Another expense to be passed on to the lodges.... someone would have to pay for its property and operations and that would inevitably be passed on the the lodges through higher per-capita, new fees and so forth. Plus the things brothers have already mentioned...

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Morris

Premium Member
what lead me down this road is I was seeing all these great ideas on this board alone. Then I was thinking how could some of these ideas get polished and become reality. It would eventually (hopefully) make it's way to the state GL. That is in itself a victory. But what about the state right next door who would also benefit from these ideas. That's where leadership comes in. That is when I was thinking more of a national lodge. Reality is though I don't believe it is feasible and the points are well taken on more overhead.

So what is feasible? Many of us work in accordance to standard operating procedures (SOPs). In my line of work this is how ideas become reality. In my particular case, we have chapters 1-7 that everyone abides by but leaves room for exception. I'm these chapters if our community doesn't actually do X,Y, or Z then we change it to meet reality. Additionally, we leave chapter 8 as the local chapter. It tells me the specifics of my area. It's things specific to my area not really covered in 1-7. So would this be feasible? To answer the "why" here it would be a national document to incorporate those good ideas.

I for one am very happy with where Freemasonry is at in my life. I'm sure what I have written isn't the right answer but it's an answer to the frustrations I hear about from my friends at lodge or even what I read on here.


Jeff
 

Morris

Premium Member
To sort of clarify my ramblings. Our leadership gets together every 5 years to go over the SOPs and to discuss more efficient and better ways of doing business and bring forth those new ideas.


Jeff
 

Morris

Premium Member
1. Grand Lodges jealously guard their sovereignty.
2. You think there are GL politics now? I have been involved in GL, national and international officer lines. I'm not sure we really want to go down that road with our GLs.
3. I can't really see anything to recommend it, either. We can already travel between GL's. Itv would be another layer of Masonic government.
4. Consensus can also be gained through the regional conferences and the CGMINA.
5. Let's get AASR NJ and SJ to merge first. That would be a winner.

I bet it only took you 30 secs to come up with those five points! Are politics really that prevalent/bad? ( I'm pretty ignorant on GL level stuff) and do you think there would ever be a time the AASR was united or was that just more to emphasize your point?

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Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
I am a member of a national GL. Good ideas don't necessarily get down to the Lodge level. It would take a great dictatorial control to to enforce compliance. That would be difficult to accept in many US GL's.

As indicated, CGMNA and regional conferences (I am sitting in Rocky Mountain Masonic Conference at this moment) are places to share ideas if that is the goal.

By politics in this sense, I mean candidate selection based on who you know (from which I've benefited), bargaining for the policies you want, disliking people because of disagreement, slights taken, going behind one another's backs to achieve your goals, removal of officers. That is all prevalent.

Who would handle discipline? Will it be a national tribunal or only a national appeal? Who will pay for travel of the trial/appellate members? Are we prepared to draft a national code governing our behavior? I have handled national disciplinary issues. It ain't fun and it ain't easy.
 

JJones

Moderator
I, for one, love the fact that my GL is within travel distance so that I can attend, meet brothers, and vote, whenever GL meets up. If we had a national GL then I really doubt it'd be close enough for me to attend or get involved in.

Who would handle discipline? Will it be a national tribunal or only a national appeal? Who will pay for travel of the trial/appellate members? Are we prepared to draft a national code governing our behavior? I have handled national disciplinary issues. It ain't fun and it ain't easy.

We used to hold our own trials at the local level here in TX, some of the older lodges still have records of it in our minute books. They appeared to take their right to hold Masonic trials pretty seriously back then also.
 

pointwithinacircle2

Rapscallion
Premium Member
I was seeing all these great ideas on this board alone...........Then I was thinking how could some of these ideas get polished and become reality.................That's where leadership comes in.
And in Masonry the individuals are the leaders. Giving each man the opportunity to excel to the limit of his potential is the heart of Masonry and the meaning of "Making Good Men Better".
 

Willys

Premium Member
I would be more in favor of Texas secession than I would be for forming an overarching Grand Lodge for the US. Oh wait... I don't mean would, as quite actually, I do. I believe a conglomeration of 50 GL's would have as many internal problems as as the union we live in today.
 

relapse98

Registered User
Reading through the Grand Lodge of Texas Law book:

Article 17
General Grand Lodge. The Grand Lodge is opposed
to the formation or establishment of a General or Supreme Grand
Lodge for the United States of America, and forbids its officers and
Grand Representatives to participate in any meeting where any
such movement shall be ever considered.
 

Rick Carver

Premium Member
Translation: We ain't splitting our Per Capita income with ANYONE. It is all about power and money. If a GL of USA were formed, I suspect most state jurisdictions would declare it clandestine and ban members from joining. Our Lodge Charter states that the jurisdiction of Grand Lodge of Kansas is sovereign, as granted by UGLE. A GL of USA would have to issue a new Charter to every lodge.
 

pointwithinacircle2

Rapscallion
Premium Member
It is all about power and money.
I agree, however not in the way that you might think. Freemasonry is an interesting exception to the rules that govern the profane world. We have created a system where the power is concentrated at the bottom, in the hands of the individual Mason. Each Mason is allowed to do, and to believe, as he pleases unless he is harming or disturbing someone else. Historically, the reason for the secrecy of the craft was to insure this bottom-up system of power.

Speculative Freemasonry was born at the end of the Dark Ages. During the Dark Ages power was concentrated in the hands of a few people who actually had the power to condemn you to death for what you knew, or for what you believed. If you didn't want to die you had to be dumb or stay hidden. This abuse of power and suppression of Liberty led to a rebellion of secrecy and distrust of central authority.

Before we breathe a huge sigh of relief that we were not born into those times let us reflect that the last great religious genocide happened less than 75 years ago, and was conducted by men after they declared Freemasonry to be illegal in their country.

History knows all
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
Before we breathe a huge sigh of relief that we were not born into those times let us reflect that the last great religious genocide happened less than 75 years ago, and was conducted by men after they declared Freemasonry to be illegal in their country.

As of today there are at least two ongoing genocides in the world that have targeting that includes religion. Under ISIS everyone but members of one faith is subject to execution. In Darfur everyone but members of two faiths is subject to execution. Neither appears to be only about religion but if you aren't a member of the ones doing killing the other issues don't matter.
 

admarcus1

Registered User
There was also a genocide in Europe as recently as the 90's targeting members of one religion. I have no idea what the perpetrators thought about Freemasonry.


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BryanMaloney

Premium Member
Its also about purpose. What would be the purpose of a Grand Lodge of the United States? To create even more bureaucracy?

I would say "Yes, that would be its purpose." Generally, I've seen calls for a "Grand Lodge of the United States" whenever someone has a personal beef with a state Grand Lodge and things a Grand Lodge of the United States would back their personal feud. It's a silly idea. Representation at the GL level is distant enough with states. Impose a national? That would be yet another layer to wade through, with even more interference. Think that state GL officials can get entrenched? Imagine a national GL, where nobody is even theoretically accountable to anyone.
 
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