Great Lodge of England.

Discussion in 'History and Research' started by antonio.guedes, Aug 18, 2013.

  1. antonio.guedes

    antonio.guedes Registered User

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    Everyone knows that the Great Lodgeof Englanf is fully connected to the British Crown. Including, there is always a duke as the MWM. So, it is valid to think they are not independent from the british state, since the Queen is the Chief of the State. So, based on that, when the freemasonry all over the world reach for their recognition, in certain way, we are looking for submision to british government. Based on that, why is so important to get their approval, even with all the history involved?

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  2. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    First, there is no such entity as the "Great Lodge of England," at least not in recognized Freemasonry. Grand Lodges seek recognition based on the United Grand Lodge of England because of the history, not because of any subservience to the Crown. Every recognized Lodge in existence can trace back to England, Scotland, or Ireland, including African Lodge 1 (later 459).
    While she is a Patron of the Craft, HRM Elizabeth II has no say in it, regardless of what anyone might speculate.
     
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  3. widows son

    widows son Premium Member

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    "First, there is no such entity as the "Great Lodge of England," at least not in recognized Freemasonry. Grand Lodges seek recognition based on the United Grand Lodge of England because of the history, not because of any subservience to the Crown. Every recognized Lodge in existence can trace back to England, Scotland, or Ireland, including African Lodge 1 (later 459).
    While she is a Patron of the Craft, HRM Elizabeth II has no say in it, regardless of what anyone might speculate."

    • Also, I'm quite certain that The Duke of Kent The Grand Master of the United Grand Lodge of England, is the only member of The Royal Family that is active in Freemasonry.
     
  4. Nycola Flamel

    Nycola Flamel Registered User

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    Do you have a proof ? :)


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  5. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    "Who controls the British crown?
    WE DO!
    Who keeps the metric system down?
    WE DO!"
     
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  6. widows son

    widows son Premium Member

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    "Do you have a proof ? :) "

    • Do you have any on the contrary?
     
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  7. Nycola Flamel

    Nycola Flamel Registered User

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    No I don't and there is still no proof then :) My approach as a "seeker of truth" is also based on the art of Zetetic. Btw, I'm french and still not fluent in english unfortunatly. Regards, O.:


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  8. widows son

    widows son Premium Member

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    "No I don't and there is still no proof then :) My approach as a "seeker of truth" is also based on the art of Zetetic. Btw, I'm french and still not fluent in english unfortunatly. Regards, O.: "

    • No problem, I understand you perfectly. But understand that as Freemasons we are not under any control by any monarch. Each Grand Lodge is sovereign.
     
  9. Nycola Flamel

    Nycola Flamel Registered User

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    I understand you perfectly. I think as a freemason, for build an argumentation and seek the truth, the reasoning has to be solid and logical. The art of doubt, the Zetetic art is still a precious virtue I think :)


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  10. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    Proof of the negative is logically impossible. While someone could show that the actual movers of Freemasonry aren't members of the British royal family, (GM of UGLE is a purely ceremonial position), then the conspiracist could say "But you didn't disprove secret control." or "You didn't disprove that the royal actually runs things while pretending to be a figurehead." It can go on infinitely, since the structure of proof makes it inherently impossible to prove a negative.
     
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  11. mrplod

    mrplod Registered User

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    Not quite so, the Duke of Kent's biological Brother, HRH Prince Michael of Kent is a Provincial Grand Master, Middlesex county if I remember correctly.



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  12. Mike Martin

    Mike Martin Eternal Apprentice Premium Member

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  13. Mike Martin

    Mike Martin Eternal Apprentice Premium Member

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    Ohh I missed some!

    1) As to the original poster's comment there is no organisational link between ANY of the three Grand Lodges operating within the United Kingdom and the Royal Family.

    ALSO
    2) Neither the UGLE nor the GLoS have a person who is a "Patron of the Craft". Thye UGLE's charities have a Grand Patron but that is our Grand Master the Duke of Kent. I am sorry to report that HM the Queen has no stronger connection to UGLE Freemasons than she has to any other Loyal (non-Forces) citizens.

    We have only had one Grand Patron of Freemasonry, back in 1830 for a short period of time King William IV had that title which may have made his wife a Grand Patroness.
     
  14. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    Interesting stuff! Learning all that I can about the history of the Craft.
     
  15. Isaih

    Isaih Registered User

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    The Order of the Garter seems to me to be a forerunner of freemasonry, created after the destruction of the Templars.
    (please correct me if I'm wrong)

    Every king since Edward III has taken it and hence was initiated in the same "religion" (apologies I cant think of a more polite term) as freemasonry.
    Except King James 1 of bible fame(, who also wrote a good book called Demonology.)

    http://www.gutenberg.org/files/25929/25929-pdf.pdf

    So I think its entirely possible the royals are freemasons, by another name.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2014
  16. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    It appears most of the rulers of Great Britain were already members prior to their coronation. QEII was, and Charles already is. There's a gap in your timeline, but I suppose you could say the Order was founded after the fall of the Templars. However, I question your continued claim that Masonry is a religion, or that members of the Order follow that same "religion;" the official religion of that empire has changed since the founding of the Order.
     
  17. Mike Martin

    Mike Martin Eternal Apprentice Premium Member

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  18. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    Well, since you invited correction <G>, an order of chivalry is not a fraternal order.
     
  19. Isaih

    Isaih Registered User

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    "Glen. Its my understanding that the Templars practiced witchcraft.
    And that in the above link I posted King James 1 , is debating on the lawfulness of witchcraft.
    For good reason. And refused the Order of the Garter.

    That the Order of the garter's motto is due to an association with the Templars.
    And hence witchcraft.

    That the knights of St John practice the same gnosticism as the Templars.
    And that the freemasons are based on this same knowledge of conjuring of spirits.



    As a genuine protestant I have come under attack by the powers that be in recent years in physical ways.
    But have also had strange things happen to me that seem to be of a spiritual nature.
    House became haunted so I had to buy a tent and sleep in the paddock .suffered total confusion in court over very simple arguments., which I easily resolved outside of court. Was attacked by an owl on 3 seperate occasions in a town which noone had ever been attacked by an owl. To name a few.

    I don't know who was responsible, I don't assume freemasons were. Oddly enough.
    But I certainly believe that witchcraft is practiced today. I don't have much choice but to believe it.

    So when I say the same religion I am politely avoiding calling it the same Craft.
    But since you argue sematics, I will simply call it what it is. ( And hope I don't get attacked by another owl for my trouble)


    Mike, as I'm sure you are aware , quite often there are several false exoteric explanations offered to hide the truth, if men would like to keep the truth secret.
    If there was no secret to hide then the official Order of the Garter website might be reliable and trustworthy.
    But if there was a secret to hide then its unlikely to be reliable.
    So what does that site really tell us?

    "
    I'm inclined to agree. It looks as though, while many Emperors and kings have the Garter, it is bestowed via the UK. Specifically from the Templar's Crown Temple Church, the Queen being the representative Grand Patroness with the responsibility of knighting.
    Members:
    The Templars and the Kings ran the empire for the pope. After the suppression of the Templars the Order of the Garter was founded to directly run kingdoms of the empire.[1] And they were instrumental in later founding of Freemasonry, according to numerous researchers.[1] 75.121.255.9 (talk) 10:03, 8 November 2010 (UTC)"

    This quoted in argument on Wikipedia . There is a counter argument. Its debateable.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Order_of_the_Garter

    My personal belief is- the Order of the Garter used to be the Craft. There was a need for it then. There isn't now, as you have Knights of St John, or just freemasonry.
    And the Queen is a Dame of St John anyhow.

    Point being, I don't think freemasons run the world as a fraternity.
    If you look beyond what they tell you. It points towards the kings of this earth.
    Kings aren't fans of brotherhoods with peasants. They tend to be snobs.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2014
  20. Levelhead

    Levelhead Premium Member

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    Wow. So your saying you think some cast an owl uponith you?

    Im sorry but thats ..... Well i don't know if i should laugh or feel bad.
     
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