My Freemasonry | Freemason Information and Discussion Forum
Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
How important is recognition?
- Thread starter bupton52
- Start date
crono782
Premium Member
My thoughts. Recognition is a means of enforcing regularity. How do you keep other jurisdictions from changing their definition of what they consider "regular" (or at least from straying too far from the status quo)? The threat of rescinding recognition. I think they inevitably go hand-in-hand.
Does that sound correct? :001_huh:
Does that sound correct? :001_huh:
The commission on information for recognition, which is a committee of the Conference of Grand Masters of North America, defines regularity as involving three principles. "Legitimacy of origin" means that a body is directly descended from either the United Grand Lodge of England (or it's two predecessors) or the Grand Lodge of Scotland or the Grand Lodge of Ireland. "Adherence to the ancient landmarks" is a little more nebulous, since there is no universal agreement on what the "landmarks" of freemasonry are. But the "set in stone" points are belief in deity, the volume of sacred law on the altar, "men only", and the prohibition of discussion of politics and religion.
The third principle is "territorial exclusivity". Respect the sovereignty of other grand bodies, and don't set up lodges in their territory without their permission.
That is how the Conference of Grand Masters of North America defines "regularity". Obviously, there are "grand lodges" out there that don't agree that one or more of those principles is important. For instance, the Grand Orient of France certainly considers itself regular, even though "mainstream" grand lodges do not, primarily because the GO doesn't require the belief in God. The "Most Worshipful Mount Carmel Grand Lodge" in Austin considers itself regular, although nearly nobody else does.
The third principle is "territorial exclusivity". Respect the sovereignty of other grand bodies, and don't set up lodges in their territory without their permission.
That is how the Conference of Grand Masters of North America defines "regularity". Obviously, there are "grand lodges" out there that don't agree that one or more of those principles is important. For instance, the Grand Orient of France certainly considers itself regular, even though "mainstream" grand lodges do not, primarily because the GO doesn't require the belief in God. The "Most Worshipful Mount Carmel Grand Lodge" in Austin considers itself regular, although nearly nobody else does.
Last edited:
widows son
Premium Member
I feel that if PHA lodges follow the requirements set out by the committee of GMs of N. America then there should be no issue of regularity, or visitation. I personally feel that, black, white and any other race of men who are masons should sit in the same lodge. I know that in the early days tolerance wasn't practiced, which is why we have PHA, but now a days there shouldn't be an issue. Unless they are operating in a way which would cause them to be irregular.
ess1113
Premium Member
Yes, Recognition is important for several reasons. It provides legitimacy and heritage. It is a form of pedigree that you meet the standard among grand lodges and are accepted into the fold.
At this years Grand Lodge of Texas, the Fraternal Recognition committee reported on the constant desire to share and extend recognition to Grand Lodge of Texas Prince Hall (hope thats the correct title). It is still a work in progress but its interesting. This year the committee brought up issues involving territoral jurisdiction involving the Grand Lodge Ivory Coast.
Fraternal recognition will always remain a personal desire of mine and I truly believe that someday this will be possible.
Standards adopted for use by The Commission for Information for Recognition of the Conference of Grand Masters of Masons in
North America in the 1950's:
I. Legitimacy of Origin
That the Grand Lodge requesting recognition has been lawfully formed by at least three just and duly constituted Lodges, or that it
has been legally recognized by a Grand Lodge in fraternal relation with the Grand Lodge from whom recognition has been requested.
That such Grand Lodge must be "under the tongue of good repute" for an adequate number of years before such fraternal recognition is
extended. An existence for such a period as satisfies the Grand Lodge whose recognition is sought, during which time the highest standards of
the Craft have been practised [sic] by the applicant Grand Lodge, may cure what would otherwise be considered illegitimacy of origin.
II. Territorial Sovereignty
That it is an independent, self-governing organization, having Masonic authority within the governmental territory over which it assumes
jurisdiction -- whether Country, Province, State or other political subdivision; or else shares such exclusive territorial jurisdiction with another
Grand Lodge by mutual consent and/or treaty.
III. Ancient Landmarks
That it subscribes fundamentally, ritualistically and in all its relations to the Ancient Landmarks, Customs and Usages of the Craft.
This requires adherence to the following:
1. Monotheism -- An unalterable and continuing belief in God.
2. The Volume of The Sacred Law -- an essential part of the furniture of the Lodge.
3. Prohibition of the discussion of Religion and Politics.
Grand Lodge of Texas
Art. 18. (18). Recognition Criteria of Other Grand Lodges. Fraternal recognition may be extended to a Grand Lodge when it appears
to the satisfaction of this Grand Lodge, a Committee having first considered and reported thereon:
1. That such a Grand Body has been formed lawfully by at least three just and duly constituted Lodges, or that it has been legalized
by a valid act issuing from the Grand Lodge of Texas, of from a Grand Body in fraternal relations with this Grand Lodge.
2. That it is an independent, self-governing, responsible organization with entire, undisputed and exclusive dogmatic
and administrative authority over the Symbolic Lodges within its jurisdiction, and not in any sense whatever subject to, or dividing such
authority with, a Supreme Council, or other Body claiming ritualistic or other supervision or control.
3. That it makes Masons of men only.
4. That it requires conformity to the following, which the Grand Lodge of Texas
considers necessary in a Masonic Body:
A. Acknowledgment of a belief in God the Father of all men.
B. Secrecy.
C. The Symbolism of Operative Masonry.
D. The division of Symbolic Masonry into the three degrees in Texas.
E. The legend of the Third Degree.
F. That its dominant purposes are charitable, benevolent, educational and religious, and that it excludes controversial politics
and sectarian religion from all activities under its auspices.
G. The Sacred Book of the Divine Law, Chief among the Three Great Lights of masonry, indispensably present in the Lodges while at work.
5. That it occupies exclusively its territorial jurisdiction or else shares the same with another by mutual consent; and that it does not presume to extend its authority, or presume to establish Lodges in, a territory occupied by a lawful Grand Lodge, without the expressed assent of such supreme governing Masonic Body.
At this years Grand Lodge of Texas, the Fraternal Recognition committee reported on the constant desire to share and extend recognition to Grand Lodge of Texas Prince Hall (hope thats the correct title). It is still a work in progress but its interesting. This year the committee brought up issues involving territoral jurisdiction involving the Grand Lodge Ivory Coast.
Fraternal recognition will always remain a personal desire of mine and I truly believe that someday this will be possible.
Standards adopted for use by The Commission for Information for Recognition of the Conference of Grand Masters of Masons in
North America in the 1950's:
I. Legitimacy of Origin
That the Grand Lodge requesting recognition has been lawfully formed by at least three just and duly constituted Lodges, or that it
has been legally recognized by a Grand Lodge in fraternal relation with the Grand Lodge from whom recognition has been requested.
That such Grand Lodge must be "under the tongue of good repute" for an adequate number of years before such fraternal recognition is
extended. An existence for such a period as satisfies the Grand Lodge whose recognition is sought, during which time the highest standards of
the Craft have been practised [sic] by the applicant Grand Lodge, may cure what would otherwise be considered illegitimacy of origin.
II. Territorial Sovereignty
That it is an independent, self-governing organization, having Masonic authority within the governmental territory over which it assumes
jurisdiction -- whether Country, Province, State or other political subdivision; or else shares such exclusive territorial jurisdiction with another
Grand Lodge by mutual consent and/or treaty.
III. Ancient Landmarks
That it subscribes fundamentally, ritualistically and in all its relations to the Ancient Landmarks, Customs and Usages of the Craft.
This requires adherence to the following:
1. Monotheism -- An unalterable and continuing belief in God.
2. The Volume of The Sacred Law -- an essential part of the furniture of the Lodge.
3. Prohibition of the discussion of Religion and Politics.
Grand Lodge of Texas
Art. 18. (18). Recognition Criteria of Other Grand Lodges. Fraternal recognition may be extended to a Grand Lodge when it appears
to the satisfaction of this Grand Lodge, a Committee having first considered and reported thereon:
1. That such a Grand Body has been formed lawfully by at least three just and duly constituted Lodges, or that it has been legalized
by a valid act issuing from the Grand Lodge of Texas, of from a Grand Body in fraternal relations with this Grand Lodge.
2. That it is an independent, self-governing, responsible organization with entire, undisputed and exclusive dogmatic
and administrative authority over the Symbolic Lodges within its jurisdiction, and not in any sense whatever subject to, or dividing such
authority with, a Supreme Council, or other Body claiming ritualistic or other supervision or control.
3. That it makes Masons of men only.
4. That it requires conformity to the following, which the Grand Lodge of Texas
considers necessary in a Masonic Body:
A. Acknowledgment of a belief in God the Father of all men.
B. Secrecy.
C. The Symbolism of Operative Masonry.
D. The division of Symbolic Masonry into the three degrees in Texas.
E. The legend of the Third Degree.
F. That its dominant purposes are charitable, benevolent, educational and religious, and that it excludes controversial politics
and sectarian religion from all activities under its auspices.
G. The Sacred Book of the Divine Law, Chief among the Three Great Lights of masonry, indispensably present in the Lodges while at work.
5. That it occupies exclusively its territorial jurisdiction or else shares the same with another by mutual consent; and that it does not presume to extend its authority, or presume to establish Lodges in, a territory occupied by a lawful Grand Lodge, without the expressed assent of such supreme governing Masonic Body.
Last edited:
It's an interesting question. To the individual mason in his search for light I guess you can say that recognition isn't that important, but for a lodge or a grand lodge it is everything.
Like it or not recognition is how masonic jurisdictions have historically dealt with each other, and it is currently the main form of "inter lodge jurisdiction" that we have.
With regards to the matters of PHA recognition the matter gets even trickier. I think it is hard talk about PHA without considering the historical reason why they came about, and in that sense I personally feel that these lodge as just as regular as any other (though I could hope that we'd one day see all of them gathered under just one grand lodge that had room for all).
That being said it also mean that if PHA is as recognized and regular as all other lodges they must abide by the same rules, landmarks, forms and territorial boundaries as all other lodges.
Like it or not recognition is how masonic jurisdictions have historically dealt with each other, and it is currently the main form of "inter lodge jurisdiction" that we have.
With regards to the matters of PHA recognition the matter gets even trickier. I think it is hard talk about PHA without considering the historical reason why they came about, and in that sense I personally feel that these lodge as just as regular as any other (though I could hope that we'd one day see all of them gathered under just one grand lodge that had room for all).
That being said it also mean that if PHA is as recognized and regular as all other lodges they must abide by the same rules, landmarks, forms and territorial boundaries as all other lodges.
I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you just said.
THurse
Premium Member
What I mean is in our studies and the different posts that I have read from, their are so many different opinions of different lodges and how the should perform and dress. What i mean is everyone does have new ideas to bring that may be beneficial to some but not others I'am keeping my mind fresh in trying to understand, because the words that I love is free and accepted.
widows son
Premium Member
Lol THurse, there isn't a negative bone in your body. I love it. But I totally understand what you mean. Fresh new ideas keeps things running smoothly. Even in an unchangeable organization such as freemasonry, new and fresh ideas are needed, especially in an ever changing, ever evolving western society.
widows son
Premium Member
But any good standing PHA mason, is my brother, and any good standing man is my friend.
widows son
Premium Member
And there's no difference between the two 
And there's no difference between the two
Than why have two regular and fully recognized Grand Lodges in the same jurisdiction? The Europeans are constantly harping on this point, and have half a point.
S&F,
-Bro Vick
sooo...recognition vs. regularity? Why is regularity important? The PHA lodges don't consider the "National Compact Prince Hall Origin" lodges regular, but the PHO lodges certainly consider themselves regular. The only difference is that PHA doesn't "recognize" PHO. EVERYONE considers themselves "regular". It's only when you want to interact with bodies outside your circle that recognition matters.
widows son
Premium Member
I don't agree with the fact that there is a factional divide between white and black masons and that they are under their prospective GL. It's not the 1700s anymore. I think it's great that prince hall did what he did for colored masons, and there is a tradition there, however in a day in age when tolerance has prevailed, the need for two sets of freemasony: one for blacks and one for white shouldn't even be a topic. If we are to lead by example, and there is a divide, what kind of example is that setting?
crono782
Premium Member
I totally agree with WS above, but here's my $.02: In this day and age, there should be no problem with having a single "unsegregated" Masonry, HOWEVER I totally understand that both have a deep and rich history and set of traditions and not all of those could be preserved if one were to be absorbed into the other or merged or what have you. In some areas tolerance may still be an issue, but in the areas where it isn't an issue, I would think neither side wants to lose their unique identity and that would be a holdback even after the issue of acceptance is quashed. I think that is a much deeper societal issue though and not unique to Freemasonry.
widows son
Premium Member
Maybe all can be recognized and keep their traditions, and still be under one fraternal roof
Ecossais
Registered User
The problem stems from the fact that regular Freemasonry has no copyright on the word "Freemasonry," or it's several related words ("Masonry," "Masonic," "Mason," etc.) For that reason, virtually anyone can create a bogus Masonic lodge or a bogus Grand Lodge. Three college boys can find a Duncan's ritual in a used bookstore, buy some regalia over the Internet and create a bogus Masonic lodge, or several Masonic lodges, in a dorm room or on the Internet. In fact, they have done so.
This does not mean that they are part of the worldwide network of Masonic grand lodges that all descend from the original grand lodges of the British Isles. They are what we call "irregular" or even "clandestine." They write their own rules, often admitting women and/or atheists, etc. Some may even require that members be of a particular religion or religious denomination. Some may even rewrite the degrees so that they do not include the Hiramic Legend.
There are, at one count, fifteen irregular and unrecognized bogus Masonic grand lodges in Texas. They are all very small, and often have no more than one or two lodges. One such bogus grand lodge, located in Houston, even used Grand Master Tommy Griffin's 2008 Masonic logo on their website, as if it was their own.
In the past, regular grand lodges have developed a fairly simple set of "Standards of Recognition" to determine if other grand lodges have 1.) Regularity of Origin, 2.) Regularity of Practice, and 3.) Autonomy.
The Phylaxis Society (the Prince Hall research society) has a website for "The Joseph A. Walkes, Jr., Commission on Bogus Masonic Practices." You can view this at http://www.thephylaxis.org/bogus/index.php , and I would encourage everyone to take a look at it.
The Phylaxis Society has posted a very concise article on "What Makes a Grand Lodge Regular?" You can see that at http://www.thephylaxis.org/bogus/regularity.php .
The Prince Hall Masons at The Phylaxis Society have done a really good job of keeping track of bogus (irregular grand lodges) and there are many. These bogus grand lodges, of which many are nothing more than elaborate pyramid scams, divert many good men away from regular Freemasonry.
This does not mean that they are part of the worldwide network of Masonic grand lodges that all descend from the original grand lodges of the British Isles. They are what we call "irregular" or even "clandestine." They write their own rules, often admitting women and/or atheists, etc. Some may even require that members be of a particular religion or religious denomination. Some may even rewrite the degrees so that they do not include the Hiramic Legend.
There are, at one count, fifteen irregular and unrecognized bogus Masonic grand lodges in Texas. They are all very small, and often have no more than one or two lodges. One such bogus grand lodge, located in Houston, even used Grand Master Tommy Griffin's 2008 Masonic logo on their website, as if it was their own.
In the past, regular grand lodges have developed a fairly simple set of "Standards of Recognition" to determine if other grand lodges have 1.) Regularity of Origin, 2.) Regularity of Practice, and 3.) Autonomy.
The Phylaxis Society (the Prince Hall research society) has a website for "The Joseph A. Walkes, Jr., Commission on Bogus Masonic Practices." You can view this at http://www.thephylaxis.org/bogus/index.php , and I would encourage everyone to take a look at it.
The Phylaxis Society has posted a very concise article on "What Makes a Grand Lodge Regular?" You can see that at http://www.thephylaxis.org/bogus/regularity.php .
The Prince Hall Masons at The Phylaxis Society have done a really good job of keeping track of bogus (irregular grand lodges) and there are many. These bogus grand lodges, of which many are nothing more than elaborate pyramid scams, divert many good men away from regular Freemasonry.
Last edited: