Irregular ritual

[NY.Light.II]

I think I saw a thread on a simile topic earlier but I have been unable to locate it. I realize that, due to the high frequency of regular Masons here, the question may not go anywhere.

Without revealing any specific secrets, Do irregular jurisdictions, specifically the GODF, use the same ritual as a regular and recognized jurisdiction? If not, what are the differences?

 

[Ressam]

I think I saw a thread on a simile topic earlier but I have been unable to locate it. I realize that, due to the high frequency of regular Masons here, the question may not go anywhere.

Without revealing any specific secrets, Do irregular jurisdictions, specifically the GODF, use the same ritual as a regular and recognized jurisdiction? If not, what are the differences?

IMHO, rituals are the same. But, it's no so important, I think.
"Words & actions". Rituals are "derivatives", I think.
"Dogms" are important. Atheists, of course, may be good guys. And, The World is nothin' without women. But.
The Question is: why Freemasonry needed?
If I get Really True Answer, I'll understand may be.

 

[NY.Light.II]

Needed by whom for what?

If the human race has a purpose beyond its own welfare then the human race may require training and instruction.

If so, a system such as Freemasonry could be useful, if not too distorted by human self-interest.

I think what he was referring to was "why does [regular] freemasonry need the landmarks of theistic belief?" Hard to tell through the muddled English.

 

[Glen Cook]

I think I saw a thread on a simile topic earlier but I have been unable to locate it. I realize that, due to the high frequency of regular Masons here, the question may not go anywhere.

Without revealing any specific secrets, Do irregular jurisdictions, specifically the GODF, use the same ritual as a regular and recognized jurisdiction? If not, what are the differences?

There are so many irregular/clandestine groups, it would be difficult to give a general response. Certainly, some use those found in regular Freemasonry, for instance, Emulation or Rectified Rite, or aPreston Webb variation.

One might also note that regular Masons would hopefully only have limited knowledge of rituals used by clandestine Masons.

 

[NY.Light.II]

There are so many irregular/clandestine groups, it would be difficult to give a general response.

That's why I specified the GOdF.

 

[Classical]

Sometimes less is more!

 

[Warrior1256]

Without revealing any specific secrets, Do irregular jurisdictions, specifically the GODF, use the same ritual as a regular and recognized jurisdiction? If not, what are the differences?

I'm a relatively new MM but since we can not visit clandestine lodges it would seem that this would be hard to know.

 

[Ressam]

Needed by whom for what?

If the human race has a purpose beyond its own welfare then the human race may require training and instruction.

If so, a system such as Freemasonry could be useful, if not too distorted by human self-interest.

I just wonder:
the guys("Founding-Fathers"of Freemasonry), who officially created it, and it means that they really have sth. like "exclusive rights" on it.
I wonder -- what would be their reaction&opinion, if they would know that later -- there'll be an acceptance of women& atheists to Fraternity?
Have they been imagined of that -- later there'll be such "transformation" in Freemasonry?

 

[Glen Cook]

I just wonder:
the guys("Founding-Fathers"of Freemasonry), who officially created it, and it means that they really have sth. like "exclusive rights" on it.
I wonder -- what would be their reaction&opinion, if they would know that later -- there'll be an acceptance of women& atheists to Fraternity?
Have they been imagined of that -- later there'll be such "transformation" in Freemasonry?

Women and atheists are not accepted in regular Freemasonry

 

[Dontrell Stroman]

Women and atheists are not accepted in regular Freemasonry

There's a guy I work with that is in a regular lodge (GL of GA) and he stated that he had sat in a lodge with women when he traveled up north. I asked him if if approved of it and he stated "well what can I say, I had to follow that jurisdictions rules."

 

[Glen Cook]

There's a guy I work with that is in a regular lodge (GL of GA) and he stated that he had sat in a lodge with women when he traveled up north. I asked him if if approved of it and he stated "well what can I say, I had to follow that jurisdictions rules."

He errs. Either he sat in an irregular lodge, or he is inaccurate in his recollection.

 

[Warrior1256]

There's a guy I work with that is in a regular lodge (GL of GA) and he stated that he had sat in a lodge with women when he traveled up north

If so then this was a clandestine lodge and he broke his obligation by attending.

 

[Dontrell Stroman]

He advised me that his obligation did not state that he could not sit in a lodge with women. It took me by surprise.

 

[Glen Cook]

He advised me that his obligation did not state that he could not sit in a lodge with women. It took me by surprise.

Yeah. Right. Forget that whole clandestine lodge prohibition.

 

[Warrior1256]

Yeah. Right. Forget that whole clandestine lodge prohibition.

Yeah, really.

 

[hiram357]

To the OP, the answer is mostly no.
There is a vast variety of Masonic ritual out there. Just because ritual within a state grand lodge is more or less uniform (with some notable exceptions) does not mean that this is so outside of the United States. Within European grand lodges, both regular and irregular, there are often a variety of rituals performed under their jurisdiction. For example, I know the GODF has many lodges that work the French Rite, which has evolved to cater to that obedience's particular humanistic tendencies. But, at the same time, there are lodges under the GODF that practice the AASR, the Rectified Rite, and any one of a number of other Masonic ritual systems. Some of them are similar to recognized jurisdictions, some are not.

 

[memphisrite]

As a brother said before: rites by themselves are not irregular or regular. I am part of a regular Lodge working under the jurisdiction of the most worshipful grand Lodge of the Dominican Republic, with relationships with all regular grand lodges in the USA and the UGLE. Working on the Ancient and primitive Memphis Rite (not to be mistaken by Memphis - misraim or misraim) and we work using all ancient landmarks. So, a rite that most masons in USA will consider irregular is practiced in a regular Lodge.

 

[Ressam]

Does the claim of "time immemorial" lodges indicate that Grand Lodges are an innovation in Masonry?

And I do not understand how nations that believe in competition as the driver of progress can also believe in exclusive territory for Grand Lodges.

Hi, James.
Sorry for the late answer.
Maybe I misunderstood you, but, IMHO:
"Freemasonry" is not a "product" or a "market"(in economy) to be subject of transformation.
Please, correct me, If I'm wrong.

 

[Ressam]

If one can believe Albert Mackay's The Symbolism of Freemasonry, " the ceremony is not the substance. It is but the outer garment which covers and perhaps adorns it".

Thus the ritual changes in all ages, but the philosophy and science remain the same (if you can find them).

Probably, I misunderstood you, Mr.James.
If you're talking about "ritual". Yes. IMHO, Rituals may change.
I meant "dogms". Faith in God&Women.
Excuse me.

 

[GKA]

In my lodge there is an excessive fixation on ritual, I find it almost comical in that the ritual is changed almost every year at the whim of the latest grand master.
You have to ask yourself where the historic significance of ritual goes after it has been modified continually
Eventually there remains little which could be recognized by one of our original brothers from ages past.
The fact is that the ritual is really insignificant to the fundamental lessons of the craft.