Persecution of Christians--real persecution.

Discussion in 'Philosophy, Religion and Spirituality' started by BryanMaloney, Aug 15, 2013.

  1. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    Someone I attended college with posted the following on her Facebook page today:

    "I just got off the phone with my husband. Several hours ago the Muslim Brotherhood and pro-Morsi supporters swarmed in and set fire to several Christian-owned shops and restaurants that are in the building just below my family's apartment, and nearby buildings as well. The army came in and put out the fires and dispersed the "protesters". My family is inside and safe (thank you Lord!). The whole city is hiding out in their homes because of these people. During their recent "protests" they had marked many businesses and homes with crosses with a big 'X' through them. They also would draw their finger across their throats while marching through the Christian neighborhoods. There are no sit-ins or protest camps there in Assiut. They have not been provoked by the army. Clearly this was planned before the events of today in Cairo. They are targeting Christians in my family's city. Please pray for my family and the others there that need safety and peace. Please pray that I can get them out of there as soon as possible. No I don't have updates on how that's going. thanks for keeping them in your prayers."

    Kathy and her family split their time between the USA and Egypt. You probably won't hear much about this aspect of the Egyptian violence, not because the victims are Christian, but because the victims are Coptic Christians. There are those in the USA who would dismiss the Copts as not being "proper" Christians. Indeed, I Copts and other types of Orthodox Christians are called "unreached" by groups such as the Southern Baptist Convention's International Mission Board. The Copts' history as a Church goes back to communities set up by the Apostles and the 70 in the Roman province of "Aegyptus", which is now the country of Egypt. Its founding members included the Theophilus mentioned in the New Testament. I am not, myself, a Copt, but however their practices might differ from my own or from yours if you are a Christian, they are still my brothers and sisters in Christ, and they are suffering persecution right now, persecution far beyond any mere inconvenience that we in the USA might have to undergo for our faith. But we will not hear much at all, if anything, about what is happening today to the Copts. It is not for a want of trying among Christian news outlets. CBN and others do cover their story, but it does not seem to get beyond that. Instead, we regale each other with tales of how we, in the USA, are somehow "persecuted", "restricted", or "warred upon". I have never had my workplace set ablaze. Nobody has marked my home for later violence.

    I have no call for action. I just read what was posted and had things put into very sharp perspective for me.

    PS: The Egyptians who drove the Muslim Brotherhood mob out were also Muslims--this is not an attack on Islam.
     
  2. jvarnell

    jvarnell Premium Member

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    Because of the freedoms we have here in the USA we see this as a problem. I see it as a problem of separation of the government and a government religion. As long as single religion that dominates a government with no limits is around this will happen. I will pray for your friends safety. The media in my opinion by not reporting things like this have blood on there hands. I have seen this coverage on Fox and CBN only. MSNBC and ABC has stated in the past that they do not report stories that people are not interested in and any story that pits one religion against another is inflammatory and should not be reported.
     
  3. widows son

    widows son Premium Member

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    That's horrible. To think this goes on in modern society still. Would the freedom the Egyptian people desire include freedom of religion? If so they are doing a horrible job at supporting that freedom.
     
  4. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    Actually, the current Egyptian regime--the coup that arrested Morsi--is protecting the Christians. What strikes me about the whole thing is how Christians in the USA are so eager to scream "We are being persecuted!" when they have no experience, at all, with persecution. In Egypt and elsewhere, Christians still undergo trials that we Christians in the USA have never had to face (except, perhaps, for those who were in small minority Christian groups--and they suffered it at the hands of other Christians). Nevertheless, we tell ourselves that we are the ones persecuted and ignore the Copts and others around the world.
     
  5. JJones

    JJones Moderator Staff Member

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    What a mess...

    I guess I don't follow the news very closely, why is there so much unrest in Egypt once again? I thought they had just stabilized themselves.
     
  6. Brennan

    Brennan Registered User

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    A new president was elected and he is a member of the Muslim brotherhood. The military later arrested him and pretty much started a coup. The Muslim brotherhood are the ones protesting, and they have a history of Violence. They were apparently have some link with Hamas.


    Freemason Connect HD
     
  7. otherstar

    otherstar Registered User

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    Not to mention the real persecution, and even martyrdom, that occurs in other parts of Africa and other parts of the world.
     
  8. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    This is the result of merging church and state. The military would not fire on civilians to keep a dictator in power but once a government was voted in that merged church and state the military is now firing on civilians. Plus as in this case the military is failing to intervene when civilians of one religion use violence against civilians of another religion.
     
  9. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    If anything the military in Egypt is the most powerful group OPPOSING a merger of "church & state", since it is the government that the military overthrew that was theocratic. So, you have theocratic civilians being fired upon by secular military--so tell me again how Egypt's military is firing on civilians because Egypt's military is dominated by a merger of "church & state"?
     
  10. jvarnell

    jvarnell Premium Member

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    This is exactly why a true democracy doesn't work. You have to have a human to look at the big picture and weigh everything. This is because people give them self's what they want without regard to what they need. They wanted Morice out because they thought it was he that was rejecting liberty, enabled by propaganda of the Muslim Brotherhood. But it was the Muslim Bro. forcing Morice to do some things they wanted. Morice was a blance between the east and west. He was neather good or bad but he was both. The USA administration got what they wanted by saying they were staying out of it. When you stand for nothing you don't stand long.
     
  11. jvarnell

    jvarnell Premium Member

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    You said it right "IF" they were just throwing out the top dog without looking at how he will be replaced. When people are irrational as they are in Egypt right now things like this happen. If a Supper power would step in and help the write a constitution like we have here and follow it they would be in a better place. But people like Ruth Vader Gensgurge tell them that the US constitutionis bad so they won't emulate it.


    The current US administration do understand unintended consequences.
     
  12. jvarnell

    jvarnell Premium Member

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    Sorry everybody in the pervious posts I said Moric and mint Mubaric.
     
  13. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    That attitude is what got us the present-day Middle East--meddling by "super powers". First France and the UK, then the USSR and the USA. Religious extremism became the only outlet for people who had political grievances.

    Now, please specifically quote wherein Justice Ginsburg stated that the US Constitution is bad.

    I find it fascinating that the issue of the true persecution of Christians occurring in the present day in Egypt vs. the whining about play-pretend "persecution" of Christians in the USA has been very conveniently ignored.
     
  14. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    This is utterly irrelevant to Egypt. Egypt at no time even tried a "true democracy". What has your political rant to do with the contrast between true persecution of Christians, as is happening in Egypt vs. the little nothings that are whined about as "persecution" in the USA?
     
  15. jvarnell

    jvarnell Premium Member

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    Well besides it not being a rant the way the founding fathers founded the US based on masonry I will answer that. When Moric was elected it was touted as a Democracy . The US was started as a democratic republic and had a constitution that reflected that. Moric then was told by Ginsburg in a speech to NOT look at the constitution of the US because it is NOT a true democracy. The other elected official's started writing that constitution and not heading Ginsburg. When Moric saw the constitution he tried to disband it. That is just one of the reason the Army did what they did. The words Democratic Republic is what give the checks and balances to democracy. Read the federalist papers and you will see this.

    The Army is the only secular (meaning with no religious preference but not without God) in the country at this time.

    The reason most don't hear of it is they watch NBC, ABC and CBS for news. If you would have been watching Fox they have had news about the percussions of Christians and Jews in Egypt from the time Moric was elected. But since people think Fox is evil because they are conservative the people will not know what is going on.

    I don't rant I try to put on paper/e-paper what the problem is and why. Then I try to say how it was taken care of in the US constitution and how the Masonic principle helped form that. We as Masons should be aware of how much even though we don't talk politics in the lodge our influence of the morals of politics have and should be. It is only called a rant when some one else doesn't like the message and then tries to shutdown that message. Thank you Bro. Maloney for helping me to know how to explain my thoughts.
     
  16. jvarnell

    jvarnell Premium Member

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  17. jvarnell

    jvarnell Premium Member

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  18. Aeelorty

    Aeelorty Registered User

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    Elected governments need a certain level or respect for the system to work properly. The problem with revolutions is that they ok the use of violence and that is a hard to for people to let the use of violence go when they think the government isn't doing what it should. Some people fought for a religious state and are still willing to fight for it. Fox isn't the only station to cover the issue of violence against Coptics. Also I don't understand the Ginsburg thing, she suggested the using the south african constitution as a model, which focuses on universal rights for all types of people and healing the fractions between groups in the population. I would hope that in two centuries humanity might be able to produce a work that surpasses works from the past, otherwise we would be going in the wrong direction.
     
  19. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    Crusades bad. Doesn't matter which religion is the one currently doing the crusade. Persecuting anyone using religion as a basis is terrible.

    Should the US pull foreign aid over it? I'm glad I don't have any control over such issues. I'd screw it up worse than any administration I've ever lived under.
     
  20. Frater Cliff Porter

    Frater Cliff Porter Premium Member

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    Yes the situation with the Coptics is grave...any situation wherein humans are persecuted because of their philosophical, religious or political opinions is horrible. I will meditate/pray for them. I feel blessed to be in in the U.S. wherein even our prejudices seem paled by comparison.
     

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