Multiple choice. Select which ones you support. All results remain anonymous.
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Prince Hall and Mainstream Freemasonry
- Thread starter Blake Bowden
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Traveling Man
Premium Member
Darn it I wish I knew that before voting!
Just select which one(s) you support. It's not scientific, but simply a way to get a general feel of how far Masons (both sides) are willing to agree upon.
NickGarner
Premium Member
Just my thoughts,
Mutual recognition, as it stands now is a sham. I would venture to sat that the majority of the Mainstream brethren (at least in my area) have no idea the compact was signed or what it means. When I bring up the subject of inter-visitation or recognition I still hear the same responses, "Prince Hall Lodges are clandestine", "There are 7, 8, 20 (whatever number he heard) Prince Hall Grand Lodges. We can't recognize any of them"...blah..blah...and of course my favorite "If a Prince Hall Mason ever sits in this lodge I QUIT".
My opinion is this we should have full recognition, what I mean by this is, Prince Hall Grand Lodge (and by extension any other Prince Hall Grand Lodges recognized by Texas Prince Hall Grand Lodge or by UGLE if that makes anyone feel any better) is treated like any other Grand Lodge recognized by GLoT. People can visit those lodges and join those lodges provided the other Grand Lodge allows plural memebership. Memebers of Texas Prince Hall Grand Lodge as well as other Prince Hall Grand Lodge members as defined above would be treated just like members of any other Grand Lodge. All recognition questions would be handled just as they are currently, examining the brothers dues card, looking up his lodge in the little book, due examination, lawful information, etc.
I really think this whole issue will be much less painful than people think. The intial adjustment period will be a little tense but things will settle down. Some people on either side will be disgruntled and some will possibly quit, you just can't make some folks happy. Some people will never adjust and I feel sorry for them. People will continue to go where they are comfortable and join lodges they like.
I for one am tired of trying to talk to my friends who are Prince Hall Masons and having to either dance around masonic topics or simply not discuss our craft in detail due to our respective rules. I look forward to being able to sit in lodge together, comparing notes, and enjoying the respective differences in our lodge systems. I personnaly think it is deplorable that a Brother in the military is deployed for year in a war zone and cannot visit a military lodge set up there because of antiquated attitudes and rules on the part of his Grand Lodge.
To sum everything up we should recognize our counterpart Prince Hall Grand Lodge and treart them as we would any other recognized Grand Lodge.
Mutual recognition, as it stands now is a sham. I would venture to sat that the majority of the Mainstream brethren (at least in my area) have no idea the compact was signed or what it means. When I bring up the subject of inter-visitation or recognition I still hear the same responses, "Prince Hall Lodges are clandestine", "There are 7, 8, 20 (whatever number he heard) Prince Hall Grand Lodges. We can't recognize any of them"...blah..blah...and of course my favorite "If a Prince Hall Mason ever sits in this lodge I QUIT".
My opinion is this we should have full recognition, what I mean by this is, Prince Hall Grand Lodge (and by extension any other Prince Hall Grand Lodges recognized by Texas Prince Hall Grand Lodge or by UGLE if that makes anyone feel any better) is treated like any other Grand Lodge recognized by GLoT. People can visit those lodges and join those lodges provided the other Grand Lodge allows plural memebership. Memebers of Texas Prince Hall Grand Lodge as well as other Prince Hall Grand Lodge members as defined above would be treated just like members of any other Grand Lodge. All recognition questions would be handled just as they are currently, examining the brothers dues card, looking up his lodge in the little book, due examination, lawful information, etc.
I really think this whole issue will be much less painful than people think. The intial adjustment period will be a little tense but things will settle down. Some people on either side will be disgruntled and some will possibly quit, you just can't make some folks happy. Some people will never adjust and I feel sorry for them. People will continue to go where they are comfortable and join lodges they like.
I for one am tired of trying to talk to my friends who are Prince Hall Masons and having to either dance around masonic topics or simply not discuss our craft in detail due to our respective rules. I look forward to being able to sit in lodge together, comparing notes, and enjoying the respective differences in our lodge systems. I personnaly think it is deplorable that a Brother in the military is deployed for year in a war zone and cannot visit a military lodge set up there because of antiquated attitudes and rules on the part of his Grand Lodge.
To sum everything up we should recognize our counterpart Prince Hall Grand Lodge and treart them as we would any other recognized Grand Lodge.
We've been discussing the same thing since 2008. We can beat around the bush, blame politics, racism or *insert* whatever. Guess what I find absolutely ridiculous? Prince Hall has the same roots as the Grand Lodge of Texas, we recognize them as REGULAR (NOT CLANDESTINE) Masons, yet we cannot Meet Upon the Level? Open the doors, let the racists on both sides scatter like rats, which they will.
Inter-visitation isn't new; it's the Southern States that are slow in recognizing our Prince Hall Brethren. That being said, Texas is, compared to many Southern Jurisdictions, progressive. Let's set an example. Want to put pressure on this issue? Email the following:
Most Worshipful Grand Lodge of Texas:
gs@grandlodgeoftexas.org
and
Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas:
pha@flash.net
All I ask is that you remain respectful voicing your opinion.
Inter-visitation isn't new; it's the Southern States that are slow in recognizing our Prince Hall Brethren. That being said, Texas is, compared to many Southern Jurisdictions, progressive. Let's set an example. Want to put pressure on this issue? Email the following:
Most Worshipful Grand Lodge of Texas:
gs@grandlodgeoftexas.org
and
Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas:
pha@flash.net
All I ask is that you remain respectful voicing your opinion.
Cigarzan
Premium Member
I'm for being able to visit MWPHGLOT lodges and vicey-versy for them and for being able to hold Masonic communications with a Brother from a MWPHGLOT lodge. I'm not sure, though, how it will work out in the "real world". Just being allowed to do those things will be enough for now. Time, patience and perseverance will over come all of the obstacles. I hope.
Brent Heilman
Premium Member
I think as long as guidelines are in place and understood there won't be any problems. I have never heard of many here in Oklahoma. The guidelines we have are clear so it really would be hard to mess it up.
BryanMaloney
Premium Member
A state line is really just a polite fiction, and this polite fiction is all that separates the various "mainstream" Grand Lodges in the USA. There is no panty-twisting over "How on EARTH can we handle this?" PHA of TX and GLoTX are separated by two vivid, living streams of history and tradition. Thus, if it is possible to figure out how GLoTX and GLoLA can interact, have mutual visitation, etc., it is no more difficult for sensible, sane individuals to figure out GLoTX and PHA of TX relationships.
If I were traveling upon a hiway and happened to see an individual who most likely belonged to PHM giving the GHSOD what would I or any other GLoTex do? Duh, we would stop and render aid to a brother. It would be as if it were genetically imprinted into our DNA; we would recognize the cry and respond.
If we recognize a PHM in this respect how can we be so blind over jurisdiction objections? We should at least in brotherly love be able to visit each others lodges.
If we recognize a PHM in this respect how can we be so blind over jurisdiction objections? We should at least in brotherly love be able to visit each others lodges.
Frater Cliff Porter
Premium Member
I didn't know PHA wasn't "mainstream" LOL.
In Colorado we have full recognition of one another, sit in lodge, we have even done courtesy work...to include YR and SR bodies
.
In Colorado we have full recognition of one another, sit in lodge, we have even done courtesy work...to include YR and SR bodies
.
I didn't know PHA wasn't "mainstream" LOL.
In Colorado we have full recognition of one another, sit in lodge, we have even done courtesy work...to include YR and SR bodies
I'm sure you're fully aware of the situation in Texas. Hopefully sooner than later...
Michael Hatley
Premium Member
I really wish there were no division at all. It is one of the reasons I sat on my petition for so long before joining - I was introduced to masonry by an Australian and it just isn't in this situation there.
At many times in my life stretching back to my childhood my best friend in the world has been black, and we're still close. I was in the service, the infantry - and the men who I looked up to and took care of me were black. I served in a buffalo soldier unit, 9th Cavalry, 3rd Brigade, 1st Cavalry Division - which was an historically all black unit.
I could ramble on, but really, I just find it to be a damned shame that we're divided.
I understand politics, protecting institutional autonomy and all of that. I'm a realist.
But visitation. Yesterday, in my opinion. Then lets take it from there.
Brass tacks is that a Brother is a Brother, to me. Thats the simple truth of it that cuts through the politics. My view.
At many times in my life stretching back to my childhood my best friend in the world has been black, and we're still close. I was in the service, the infantry - and the men who I looked up to and took care of me were black. I served in a buffalo soldier unit, 9th Cavalry, 3rd Brigade, 1st Cavalry Division - which was an historically all black unit.
I could ramble on, but really, I just find it to be a damned shame that we're divided.
I understand politics, protecting institutional autonomy and all of that. I'm a realist.
But visitation. Yesterday, in my opinion. Then lets take it from there.
Brass tacks is that a Brother is a Brother, to me. Thats the simple truth of it that cuts through the politics. My view.
scialytic
Premium Member
Would somebody be so kind as to PM me with a copy of the 2007 Mutual Recognition Compact? Though I am a lowly EA (for now), I plan to educate several of my like-minded Brothers that didn't know about it. Once I am Raised, I plan to research and present my findings to my Home Lodge. I am not trying to persuade, but shed Light on this subject as it is the greatest disinfectant.
If the compact can't be emailed, let me know where I can find it. I'm willing to travel to GL if needed...
If the compact can't be emailed, let me know where I can find it. I'm willing to travel to GL if needed...
mrmarcust
Premium Member
In regards to this I think what is a great solution is that members of both jurisdictions work together and start with public and open events where we can fellowship together in a none masonic setting. I'd be interested if anyone would be interested in putting in thus work. This would help combat potential, preconceived problems (or to prove that that problem doesn't exist).
BryanMaloney
Premium Member
Here is a link to a thread that links to the compact: http://www.masonsoftexas.com/showth...-MWPHGLofTX&highlight=prince+hall+compact+pdf
BryanMaloney
Premium Member
This problem has nothing at all to do with politics or institutional autonomy. It has everything to do with the fact that Texas still has people like my mother-in-law, who is very careful about what "kind" of people she is willing to sit next to at church.
mrmarcust
Premium Member
As an active black member in the GLoTX, I think it's less of a problem than people may think. But unless people work together, it'll never change because the only ones voicing themselves are those that are against it.
I've started a Facebook group and am working with individuals to work on this situation. If it's something you're interested in them get proactive vs just staying why it won't happen.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
I've started a Facebook group and am working with individuals to work on this situation. If it's something you're interested in them get proactive vs just staying why it won't happen.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
Brent Heilman
Premium Member
What's the Facebook page? It will take a collective effort on all parts to change the norm. Lord willing it will happen soon though.
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