The Grand Lodge Of Arkansas Continues Its Masonic Purge

Discussion in 'Shrine' started by Squire Bentley, Dec 25, 2012.

  1. Squire Bentley

    Squire Bentley Premium Member

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  2. Plustax

    Plustax Registered User

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    Sadly it really appears to be a political & power trip thing that has gotten out of hand by GLoA. It should have never gone as high as it did, but looks like certain people in high positions were out for vengence. Now there are many who have been faithful to the Masons AND Shriners for many many years.. are now being put in a terrible position to choose. Worse yet, ALL children in Akansas Shriner hospitals will suffer from this. It also gives a very "black eye" to masonry EVERYWHERE. ALL because of "power & politics" among the ranks of masonry. I wonder if many Shriners will demit from their Masonic lodges "in good standing" & remain with the Shriners. Hmmmmmmmmm...
     
  3. widows son

    widows son Premium Member

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    Let's not forget, your a mason first then a shriner
     
  4. Pscyclepath

    Pscyclepath Premium Member

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    The Buffington business is long over, and Floyd is gone... He can re-petition to be restored to good status in about 30 years. There are still a couple dozen folks who put the Shrine over their standing as a master Mason, and have continued run attend and participate with the Shrine.

    The people who are getting expulsion letters now are those who have continued to attend tiled Shrine functions as master masons. The Grand Lodge of Arkansas upheld the previous grand master's edict declaring the Shrine to be a clandestine organization in February, 2012, and the edict was incorporated into the 2012 Arkansas Masonic Digest. As MMs, we make certain promises about masonic communication with suspended, expelled, or clandestine Masons, as well as conforming to and abiding by the rules of the Grand Lodge. Personally, I (and many others, including Shriners disenfranchised by the action of these selfish nobles) don't agree with the expulsion without trial bit, but in general, feel that the GL is taking the appropriate action against these guys. Neither Scimitar nor the Imperial Shrine is telling the whole story about this, only trying to tie things back to Floyd and his problems.
     
  5. Plustax

    Plustax Registered User

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    Master Masons first & always..... it still appears that integrity is in question of some Master Masons in high positions that started all this cluster. Is there a purpose in creating this disention "in the ranks?" i still say its a sad day for ALL Masons, Scottish Rite, York Rite, Shriners or ANY masonic affiliated fraternaties.... Worldwide. Still about Power & Politics..... Using our oaths/obligations .... Nothing more... Nothing less. How many are we going to lose now because of all this? All this is not going to stop anytime soon. Its going to build and fester in to other states....& get worse yet. Master Masons first.... Even at the cost if wrong decisions were made at the highest levels. Sad Sad times indeed.....
     
  6. widows son

    widows son Premium Member

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    Leave it to people to ruin and corrupt things. Our order stands in opposition to corruption, but yet we see childish behavior from men who are old enough to be my father. It's like the child seeing the faults in his parents, rather than seeing them as an unbreakable force when your a child.
     
  7. Plustax

    Plustax Registered User

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    Agreed.... Like seeing the faults in our parents. However as children we never questioned & always abided by their decisions (right or wrong). However, as we grow in to adulthood & form our own opinions & follow our own moral interpretations, we can disagree & question decisions & decide whether to simply continue because "it's always been that way" OR "do as I say & not as I do"..... (right or wrong)... You must follow my decision & the way I interpret because of where I sit. IMHO


     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2012
  8. chrmc

    chrmc Registered User

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    To be honest I'm getting tired of hearing about this, and I don't even live in Arkansas. I dread to think what the poor masons in that state are feeling. It fills me with sadness that grown men, who presumably have been masons for many, many years can get so filled up with hatred, become big headed due to fancy titles and generally just act in ways unbecoming of a mason, but guess that power does indeed corrupt.

    As for the whole actual discussion I still don't see anything changed. In order to be a Shriner you have to be a Master Mason. If you're no longer a Master Mason for whatever reason, then you should not be able to be a Shriner. Simple as that and end of discussion.
    If you then want to go back and take another discussion about how the GL of Arkansas handles their expulsions you can do that, but frankly that has nothing to do with the Shriners.

    It looks to me like the two organizations may be coming to the point of parting ways, and if that is the best for both parties, maybe that is the smartest.
     
  9. Plustax

    Plustax Registered User

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    yup.... I believe all this had done is cause these 2 great fraternaties to part ways. So.... I guess congrats is in order to those that have pushed for this to happen.
    I do wonder though how a friend of mine from N Carolina had demitted from his Masonic lodge in "good standing" & took that letter from the lodge secretary to his shrine temple & joined with no problem whatsoever. Of course we know that can never happen in Arkansas as I'm sure they would put a "clause" in a letter of good standing to stop anyone from joining a clandestine organization. Hey... Maybe all those shriners can just join the KofC fraternity.... At least until they are ousted for some reason. WoW, this may all be a new trend that is starting. LOL
     
  10. sands67

    sands67 Premium Member

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    As much as it pains me I have to agree. You are a Shriner only after being a Mason in Good Standing. Whether you agree with the Grand Master in Arkansas (I DON'T) the two temples that help the Children in Arkansas should be shuttered. No excceptions. Obviously the present Grand Master would rather let politics get in the way of Good Men helping the Children in Arkansas than try to come to an amicable agreement. The situation is not getting any better in that state and as some have said here this is not the first time it has happened.
    If I were the Shrine however I would not reopen the Shrine in Arkansas any time soon either. It is obviously not welcome unless it falls under the total control of the Grand Lodge there. I do not know of anywhere else where that would be the case at present.
     
  11. widows son

    widows son Premium Member

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    If we ignore these problems, there is no progress. It's imperative that these men are brought back into the Masonic fold. In these crazy times masons need to be firm on their ground, to support and defend our order, from enemies, and for public image. This is a literal broomstick in the spokes for us whether you think it effects you or not. A guy like skip can easily utilize a situation like this to further spread is nonsensical hate information. People are already weary of us, lets not give them a reason to be.
     
  12. sands67

    sands67 Premium Member

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    The expelled Masons are standing their ground. They are standing for what they believe. The expelled masons in this case are caught in a political storm where they are stuck with having to make a choice. Help Children via Shriners or stand with the Grand Lodge which appears, (in my opinion) to be acting incorrectly with motives that may be subject to question. Unfortunately there does not appear to be a middle ground even if all of the Shriners cought up in this mess were expelled from Shrinedom which according to the current rules they should be. I stand by my remark that the Shrine temples be shuttered in Arkansas and that Shriners from other states do what they can to help the kids in that state. I put to you, how is it helping the reputation of Masonry when the Grand Lodge declares a branch of Masonry that helps children, as a clandestine organization?
     
  13. widows son

    widows son Premium Member

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    I agree that both parties aren't helping the situation. The shrine first off should of acknowledged the request of the GL. Second the GL should done everything in its power to prevent this from happening, and as a last resort utilize the clandestine card. As masons these men should know the right path to finding common ground. We teach this to new initiates in out lodges. The shrine isn't the only masonic organization that helps children. The GL or other shine jurisdictions could easily take over that portion of business until the matter is resolved. The fact of the matter is the said mason was penalized for unmasonic conduct and should have complied with the GL. The shrine should of acknowledged it, and complied. This guy could of held a hearing and defended his story, which could of made a different outcome. Even if it was unfairly dealt with, in respect to the order he and the shrine could of gone about doing those business the proper way.
     
  14. sands67

    sands67 Premium Member

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    The potentate in question at the heart of the matter did indeed take a demit several months ago from the Shrine in an effort to pacify the situation. The Grand Lodge could not take over Shrine activities and if you think that I must say you are discrediting the work involved in running the Shrine. The Shrine does fantastic work through its hospitals. It is not all play and clown outfits by any stretch of the imagination. I am a hard working mason in my lodge and a hard working Shriner. You gain satisfaction out of the results of the work you do. Do you know the history on this? It is not as black and white as you may think. http://masonicleaks.com/tag/shriners-international/ I hope that link will work and should give you some back ground on this.
     
  15. widows son

    widows son Premium Member

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    I respect the work the shrine does. But that is not the underlying issue. Internal politics has caused a rift between two respectable Masonic organizations, and therefore threatens all masons. Perhaps there is more to the story, but like I said, both parties are dealing with this in the wrong manner. I would live nothing more to see this resolved, but where both parties are satisfied. Now another point on this is I've heard that the shrine wants to do away with the master mason requirement. I oppose this, as the shrine is a Masonic organization, and contributes a massive amount of effort for its hospitals and other charitable works, but one thing that is into mind is, freemasonry is also an institution for the individual. The ceremonies and degrees have a great spiritual and esoteric meaning behind them that is ancient. Is this the case when it comes to the shrine? I'm not a Shriner and haven't been able to find anything about their degree or rites, other than knowing that its a lot less serious and more humorous and fun,but if this is the case, to me that would be one reason to eliminate the requirement of being a mason.
     
  16. chrmc

    chrmc Registered User

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    And that may almost be one of the essences that you hit on here. Is the Shrine really a masonic organization any longer? We all know the history why it was created, and we all truly admire the incredible job they do with their hospitals and charities, but in truth what Masonic content is in the Shrine besides the initial initiation?

    I don't mean this in a negative way, but personally feel like we may be dealing with two organization that though one sprang from the other they've grown so far apart in goals, focus and spirit over the years that they have little in common. It's like an old friend from your childhood that you meet again. You love what you had together, but it's just not there any more.
     
  17. sands67

    sands67 Premium Member

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    The potentate in question according to my understanding was a Mason in Good Standing in two states - Arkansas and Iowa. Therefore the man in question could have remained a Shriner, but to help rectify the condition took a demit from the Shrine. Still not good enough for the Grand Lodge. In the end the Shrine will have no choice but to expel all expelled Masons to rectify the situation I feel and the Grand Lodge of Arkansas will be worse off for it. The other option would be to shutter the Shrine Centers in the State of Arkansas which I also think should happen.
    With respect to your comments regarding Shriners looking to do away with the Master Mason requirement I think that is an urban myth. I have asked here and other forums and no one has been able to say that was the case by pointing me to a document or anything else. I would also oppose such a move. This year is the 140 anniversary of Shriners and the 90th year of Shriners hospitals. It was started by 13 Master Masons who just wanted to have fun as part of Freemasonary. The rituals are not as deep by any stretch of the imagination and are meant to be more fun. Even Master Masons are allowed to have fun and do great work for our kids at the same time!!!! Fun has been part of it from day one. All I can say is that if you want to ensure that this stays part of the requirement (assuming there is a movement to get rid of the Master Mason requirement) then join up and make sure it never happens. Only with numbers will Master Masons ensure the organization stays as it is.
     
  18. widows son

    widows son Premium Member

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    Correct, and its good to have fun, however as you said if a man is expelled from a GL then that means from other Masonic bodies, that uphold the hiramic legend. I'm sure the shrine does. The Entered apprentice, fellow craft, master mason with the royal arch, are the only degree that designate rank, and the lodges and grand lodges are the authority. Appendant bodies are further creations to help expand on the legend, increase Masonic knowledge and to have a wider philanthropic base. The Grand Lodge IS the authority in masonic matters. We all accepted that on the night we were presented in our lodge the bylaws and the book of constitutions, and when affixed are names to it. When it comes to the fairness of internal politics in this particular topic I'm sure there's a bit more than meets the eye, and doesn't necessarily mean that I 100% agree with the decisions any GL or GM makes. But the structure of freemasonry is something to be respected just as the structure of your republic is to be respected.
     
  19. sands67

    sands67 Premium Member

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    I agree, but in this case which Grand Lodge prevails? The Grand Lodge in Arkansas or the Grand Lodge in Iowa which never expelled him to this date or ever brought a Masonic charge against him? Who really erred here? Was The previous potentate in Arkansas a Master Mason, YES....in Iowa despite being expelled from the Grand Lodge in Arkansas. Until the GL in Iowa expelled or brought a Masonic charge the Shrine was well within its right to maintain membership.
     
  20. Plustax

    Plustax Registered User

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    All of this...... Because some did not want a person to be potentate a second term.... Because music was too loud & asked to be turned down... Because it was not ANY type of Masonic function.... Because someone pissed in someone's fruit loops.. Yes that's all it amounted to. It's pathetic, it's shameful & embarrassing to our fraternaties worldwide. Keep a lookout on our dwindling membership cause it'll probably hit a new low & dues will rise even higher yet to try & offset the loss of membership. Instead of finding & showing better ways to love our "brother", we show the fruitloop conspiracy. Silly isn't it?
     

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