Visiting Internationally

[Mike Martin]

I'm visiting Rio in December. Does anyone have a suggestion of a lodge there that I may visit please? I don't speak Portuguese unfortunately and am an English Freemason under UGLE and am a PM.

This post is a perfect case in point of one of the reasons why the protocols exist!

If you ask your Lodge Secretary he will tell you that there are UGLE Lodges in Rio under the District Grand Lodge of South America , Northern Division and he will be able to give you the contact details or you can take them from the UGLE Website. You have no need of going any higher up the protocols as they are Lodges under your own Grand Lodge and despite the distance it is the same as visiting a Lodge in a different Province.

 

[Mike Martin]

It should not be forgotten that although international Masonic protocols dictate that you may not communicate with a foreign Grand Lodge without going through your own Grand Secretary (or Grand Chancellor) that changes if you are actually in that Grand Lodges jurisdiction.

So for example if you were a Texas Mason in London we would not expect you to phone up the US before approaching the UGLE, however, there can be complications when proving yourself at an individual Lodge although in Grand Lodge we would just phone or email your Grand Secretary to check your membership status.

It's always worth remembering that elsewhere Freemasonry is not the same as in the States, a perfect example is that English Freemasons do not have such a thing as a "Dues Card", so if you came to one of our Lodges it would not prove anything to us. Another is that some of your signs are different to ours and so you might have difficulty proving yourself. The minimum thing that you MUST bring would be your Grand Lodge certificate and regalia.

 

[dfreybur]

It should not be forgotten that although international Masonic protocols dictate that you may not communicate with a foreign Grand Lodge without going through your own Grand Secretary (or Grand Chancellor) that changes if you are actually in that Grand Lodges jurisdiction.

So for example if you were a Texas Mason in London we would not expect you to phone up the US before approaching the UGLE, however, there can be complications when proving yourself at an individual Lodge although in Grand Lodge we would just phone or email your Grand Secretary to check your membership status.

This makes short term trips problematic. It can take longer to arrange a visit that the trip to the UK lasts I've heard. Jurisdictions get to make rules like that if they want. I happen to like the US system where I can show up and ask permission to visit, but that's because my mother jurisdiction encourages that. I've been on business trips under a month long and been able to visit local lodges here in the US. But your jurisdiction your rules, vive la difference.

It's always worth remembering that elsewhere Freemasonry is not the same as in the States, a perfect example is that English Freemasons do not have such a thing as a "Dues Card", so if you came to one of our Lodges it would not prove anything to us. Another is that some of your signs are different to ours and so you might have difficulty proving yourself. The minimum thing that you MUST bring would be your Grand Lodge certificate and regalia.

The Grand Lodge certificate is a form printed by the GL issued within the last year and signed by your lodge's Secretary attesting that you are a member in good standing, right? I've seen sizable papers of that sort. In the US we have exactly that same type of form but we print them on smaller paper and use a different name for them. We call them dues cards. Different name, same system.

As to bringing your own regalia that's a very nice idea. I like encouraging brothers to bring their own apron. As US lodges keep a supply of aprons most brothers who bring aprons bring PM ones or other aprons of office.

 

[Echevin]

Thanks all. This is very helpful.

 

[Mike Martin]

This makes short term trips problematic. It can take longer to arrange a visit that the trip to the UK lasts I've heard. Jurisdictions get to make rules like that if they want. I happen to like the US system where I can show up and ask permission to visit, but that's because my mother jurisdiction encourages that. I've been on business trips under a month long and been able to visit local lodges here in the US. But your jurisdiction your rules, vive la difference.

Hi Doug you might have read my post too quickly, so just to be clear, The protocol is that if you are physically in the territory of a foreign Grand Lodge you can talk to it with out going through your own Grand Secretary

The Grand Lodge certificate is a form printed by the GL issued within the last year and signed by your lodge's Secretary attesting that you are a member in good standing, right? I've seen sizable papers of that sort. In the US we have exactly that same type of form but we print them on smaller paper and use a different name for them. We call them dues cards. Different name, same system.

A slight confusion here and as always it is the differences that makes it interesting. A Grand Lodge certificate is the certificate issued by the Grand Secretary and signed by the Candidate on the completion of his Third Degree, he is issued only the one at that one time. It does not in any way illustrate a brother's standing, financially or otherwise, with his Lodge it proves that he has been made a Master Mason by a Lodge under the UGLE. So as I said we do not have dues cards, although when a brother resigns from a Lodge he can request a "clearance certificate" I think you would call it a "Demit" which proves that he resigned in good standing, he can also request one of these if he wishes to join another Lodge but they are not issued generally.

As to bringing your own regalia that's a very nice idea. I like encouraging brothers to bring their own apron. As US lodges keep a supply of aprons most brothers who bring aprons bring PM ones or other aprons of office.

Another difference! The only aprons that an English Lodge will have spare will be a couple of EA and FC ones. This is because when a brother under the UGLE has been Raised he purchases his own MM apron and will use that until such time that he becomes the Master of a Lodge when he will change it for the apron of an Installed Master.

 

[MarkR]

Another difference! The only aprons that an English Lodge will have spare will be a couple of EA and FC ones. This is because when a brother under the UGLE has been Raised he purchases his own MM apron and will use that until such time that he becomes the Master of a Lodge when he will change it for the apron of an Installed Master.

That's interesting, because I read the The Square Magazine that UGLE regulations specify that foreign visitors to UGLE lodges MUST wear UGLE regalia, and cannot wear their own if it doesn't conform. My Past Master apron does not have the levels of a UGLE PM, it has the square, quadrant and compasses with a blazing sun in the center that is appropriate for a PM in my jurisdiction. Since you don't have loaners and mine isn't permitted, I wonder what I'd do?

 

[Mike Martin]

That's interesting, because I read the The Square Magazine that UGLE regulations specify that foreign visitors to UGLE lodges MUST wear UGLE regalia, and cannot wear their own if it doesn't conform. My Past Master apron does not have the levels of a UGLE PM, it has the square, quadrant and compasses with a blazing sun in the center that is appropriate for a PM in my jurisdiction. Since you don't have loaners and mine isn't permitted, I wonder what I'd do?

Hi Mark,
I would suggest that you re-read it because either you misread it or the person who wrote it is an idiot. The ONLY Masons who MUST wear UGLE regalia in UGLE Lodges are UGLE Masons.

The only time where there might be a small hesitation would be a Freemason who holds dual membership. For example if they were a subscribing member of a foreign GL AND a subscribing member of a UGLE Lodge (such as the Internet Lodge), under those circumstances he should wear the appropriate regalia and for you that would be an MM's apron as you are not an Installed Master under the UGLE.

Having been a (correspondence) member of Quatuor Coronati Lodge 2076 for nearly 20 years I can confirm not just the rule but the practise. We nearly always have overseas visitors (usually correspondence members too) at meetings and I have yet to see any one try and get them into English Regalia.

 

[MarkR]

Yes, I misread it. It was referring to Past Masters from other jurisdictions who join an English Constitution lodge, not merely visit.

It says they may not wear the PM apron of the other jurisdiction, but may wear the PM apron of the UGLE with the three levels, but may not wear the collar of a PM until they have sat in the east in an English lodge.

There was a rather confusing sentence in the article: "The Board wishes to remind Brethren who have joined Lodges of the English Constitutions from other Constitutions that they must wear English regalia in English Lodges, whether they are present as members or as visitors." That is a bit unclear. (The Square, Sept. 2013 issue, P. 55)

 

[Mike Martin]

Hi Mark,

As I wrote it's the difference between Visiting and Joining (aka becoming a subscribing member) a Lodge within the UGLE.

 

[cemab4y]

Interesting responses. I would encourage any Mason, who wishes to visit a lodge in a foreign country, to do your research. You should contact the WM/Secretary or a member of the lodge, and inquire. Get the location, meeting time, and as many specifics as you can. Some foreign lodges, require you to wear a coat and tie. Also check with your home lodge and Grand Lodge, and ensure that the Grand Lodge which holds the charter for the lodge you wish to visit, has fraternal relations with your home Grand Lodge. You might be charged with visiting a "clandestine" lodge.

When I lived in Paris, there were five (5) different Grand Lodges, only one of which was recognized by my home Grand Lodge. Unhappily, the National Grand Lodge of France (GLNF) has be de-recognized by my Grand Lodge. :-( I could not attend if I lived in France now.

Be on your guard. I have enjoyed international visitation very much. My experience in Moscow, was unforgettable.