What would you like to see changed in the Masonic experience?

[coachn]

--My definition of change, and yours differ somewhat. I cannot stress too strongly, that I am NOT interested in changing the traditions, ritual, constitutions, landmarks,etc. BUT I am very interested in changing and modernizing the administrative methods, and some of the methodologies of doing things. I am also keen on reviving some of our cherished traditions, like more services to our widows. and our Masonic employment bureaus. My definition of "change" is somewhat elastic.

Then you ARE interested in changing things about Masonry. Thanks for the clarification.

----If there is some point I am missing, maybe you can identify it. As to changing the experience: Phasing out print newsletters and replacing them with on-line, will not change Masonry. Bringing in more daylight lodges, is not going to alter the landmarks.

I can't see how this will bring back enough interest from those who do not attend to have them banging on the lodge doors to come back and attend.

--If you are confused, here it is again:

I am not confused nor do I have confusion. I said that you are confusing. There is a difference.

 

[cemab4y]

Then you ARE interested in changing things about Masonry. Thanks for the clarification

You should have noticed this already. There are some things that need to be changed, in order to cope with technology, an aging membership base, fewer lodges, etc. And I believe that we should seriously examine reviving some of our traditional practices, which have been abandoned. Two of the most important are the Masonic employment bureaus, and service to our Masonic widows. Sometimes you can go forward, by reaching backward!

 

[cemab4y]

I can't see how this will bring back enough interest from those who do not attend to have them banging on the lodge doors to come back and attend.

Consider this. If a lodge does not have a print newsletter, and does not have an on-line newsletter, then the membership is not getting promptly informed of lodge activities. Members who attend frequently can keep up on the happenings, but inactives, do not have a clue. If a lodge is informing ALL members regularly, more members will be aware of the activities, and participation will increase. Members who cannot get out at night, would be able to participate, if there were a daylight lodge in their area, and/or their lodge would have meetings and degree work on the weekend, during daylight.

IF administrative procedures can be altered/modified, to accommodate the membership, it follows that participation will increase.

 

[cemab4y]

I am not confused nor do I have confusion. I said that you are confusing. There is a difference.

If you are confused about anything I post, please let me know, and I will make every effort to clarify.

 

[coachn]

You should have noticed this already.

Oh, I have for some time. It was nice to see you admit it though.

If you are confused about anything I post, please let me know, and I will make every effort to clarify.

Will do, thanks.

Consider this. If a lodge does not have a print newsletter, and does not have an on-line newsletter, then the membership is not getting promptly informed of lodge activities.

Yes, but if the lodge activities are of no interest to the inactive member, what difference does the form make?

Members who attend frequently can keep up on the happenings, but inactives, do not have a clue.

OR they don't require any clues in that they are simply disinterested.

If a lodge is informing ALL members regularly, more members will be aware of the activities, and participation will increase.

Citation Please!

Members who cannot get out at night, would be able to participate, if there were a daylight lodge in their area, and/or their lodge would have meetings and degree work on the weekend, during daylight.

IF administrative procedures can be altered/modified, to accommodate the membership, it follows that participation will increase.

Citation Please!

 

[LAMason]

...Masonic employment bureaus...

 

[cemab4y]

Yes, but if the lodge activities are of no interest to the inactive member, what difference does the form make?

This is a "chicken or egg" conundrum. If a lodge has no print nor on-line newsletter, then lodge activities will only be known, by those who are active. When active members attend, they are able to get the schedule of events. BUT- If a man is inactive, he has no way of knowing when the lodge meets, when degrees are scheduled , etc.

This is why the lodge should reach out to inactives, with an on-line newsletter, or at a minimum a mailing list, with a schedule of events. AND, reach out to inactives, with a phone call or personal visit, at least twice a year.

If an inactive member is aware of events, he is much more likely to attend, than someone who is completely in the dark! The analogy is inexact, but Masonry must continually "sell" itself to inactive members, with rusty nail nights, and personal invitations.

OR they don't require any clues in that they are simply disinterested.

Of course, if a man is TOTALLY disinterested, and his only interest is to send his dues payment in regularly, then no invitations or personal contact will entice him to return to lodge and lodge activities.

BUT- If the lodge can reach out to inactives,and show them the value of participation, there is a good chance, that at least some inactives, will wish to return to lodge. You don't know unless you try.

And when you are in private conversation with inactives, you can "glean" from them, the WHY of their reasons for inactivity. You might even wish to make some modifications in your lodge programs, based on their suggestions.

Citation Please!

If a lodge is informing ALL members regularly, more members will be aware of the activities, and participation will increase. I have no "hard data" to support this thesis. It is a logical deduction. If a lodge has a print newsletter, and/or an online newsletter, the members will be better informed of activities and schedules, and then much more likely to attend. If a lodge has events, and no one in the lodge knows about them, attendance will be less.

===
Members who cannot get out at night, would be able to participate, if there were a daylight lodge in their area, and/or their lodge would have meetings and degree work on the weekend, during daylight.

IF administrative procedures can be altered/modified, to accommodate the membership, it follows that participation will increase.

Citation Please!

==Here again, I have no "hard data". and again, it is a logical deduction. Here is how it works: If a lodge has members who work evenings and/or members who cannot get out at night, due to inability to drive, these men will not be attending lodge in the evenings. BUT- If the lodge has activities in the daylight, on weekends, these men can attend


.

 

[coachn]

This is a "chicken or egg" conundrum.

I disagree.

If a lodge has no print nor on-line newsletter, then lodge activities will only be known, by those who are active.

Assumption

When active members attend, they are able to get the schedule of events. BUT- If a man is inactive, he has no way of knowing when the lodge meets, when degrees are scheduled , etc.

Assumption

This is why the lodge should reach out to inactives, with an on-line newsletter, or at a minimum a mailing list, with a schedule of events.

Your reasoning is unsupported.

AND, reach out to inactives, with a phone call or personal visit, at least twice a year.

Why at least twice a year? Data please.
.

If an inactive member is aware of events, he is much more likely to attend,

Assumptive once again

...than someone who is completely in the dark! The analogy is inexact, but Masonry must continually "sell" itself to inactive members, with rusty nail nights, and personal invitations.

Assumptive once again

Of course, if a man is TOTALLY disinterested, and his only interest is to send his dues payment in regularly, then no invitations or personal contact will entice him to return to lodge and lodge activities.

Agreed

BUT- If the lodge can reach out to inactives,and show them the value of participation,

The value must be there to begin with. That's the challenge that has yet to be met.

there is a good chance, that at least some inactives, will wish to return to lodge. You don't know unless you try.

You might want to harp on building the value first.

And when you are in private conversation with inactives, you can "glean" from them, the WHY of their reasons for inactivity. You might even wish to make some modifications in your lodge programs, based on their suggestions.

You mean, take their feedback and make changes to the masonry that is practiced in your lodge!?

If a lodge is informing ALL members regularly, more members will be aware of the activities, and participation will increase.

Assumptive

I have no "hard data" to support this thesis.

agreed

It is a logical deduction.

based on unsupported data

If a lodge has a print newsletter, and/or an online newsletter, the members will be better informed of activities and schedules, and then much more likely to attend.

assumptive

If a lodge has events, and no one in the lodge knows about them, attendance will be less.

assumptive

==Here again, I have no "hard data". and again, it is a logical deduction.

Using unsupported data

Here is how it works: If a lodge has members who work evenings and/or members who cannot get out at night, due to inability to drive, these men will not be attending lodge in the evenings. BUT- If the lodge has activities in the daylight, on weekends, these men can attend.

Assumptive

 

[cemab4y]

You mean, take their feedback and make changes to the masonry that is practiced in your lodge!?

--If you think I mean this, then you are wrong. I look on inactive members, as a resource. This may sound odd, but it really is not. I believe that every Mason who sends in his dues, but chooses not to attend, is doing so, for a reason (or reasons).

Inactives can provide "intelligence", as to why they were initially attracted to Masonry, and then why they choose to be inactive. It may be due to a medical reason, the man may not be able to drive. In this case, arrange for a carpool.

The man may feel that the lodge meetings he attended in the past were boring or uninteresting. Find out why. Your lodge meetings, may be quite different than the last one the inactive man attended.

The man may feel that he forgot the modes of recognition and he is embarrassed. You can either arrange for private instruction, or invite him to the next Rusty Nail.

If the reasons for the various inactives seem to point in a similar direction, the problem may be more widespread.

Your lodge may wish to make some modifications or try some new idea. NO ONE IS SUGGESTING CHANGING MASONRY. I cannot stress that enough.

"People like to be asked" - Thomas P. (Tip) O'Neill, former speaker of the House. 1977-1987

 

[cemab4y]

Why at least twice a year? Data please.

I have no data, and you know it. I have some background in sales. My church has an outreach program to inactive members. There is a fine line, between showing concern, and nagging. No one knows how frequently that you should contact an inactive Mason. Sadly, most lodges are content to have the dues coming in, and let it go at that.

Twice a year, is an arbitrary number, of course. Maybe four times a year, would be more appropriate, I honestly don't know. The important thing , is to reach out to your inactives, in some manner.

 

[Glen Cook]

more table lodges.

IF I ever make the east I will be doing one out of two meetings a month as a table lodge. I'm going to also suggest the incoming master do same.

St Andrew's Lodge did one just Saturday at the Alta Club in Salt Lake City.

 

[pointwithinacircle2]

Personally, I wish my Lodge had more inactives. If we could raise 25 more members who paid their dues but never came to Lodge we wouldn't have to fund raise to pay the utilities. <-- (Okay, that was a joke, sorta)

But seriously. I think I get where Charles is coming from. I remember when I was saying all the things that he is saying. As I recall, back then I had a real feeling of discomfort and frustration. (Not saying that you feel that way Charles, just recalling what it was like for me) It seemed to me that the answers were right in front of our faces and no one would do anything about it. Fortunately, just when I thought I was about to lose it, I ran across a rather interesting oxymoron that saved my sanity; Disinterested Compassion. Disinterested Compassion is the art of dealing with others while keeping the proper emotional distance. It is feeling compassion toward others without allowing yourself to be disturbed by their behavior. It is scribing a circle and realizing that while you can love those outside your circle they are beyond your cable tow. It is accepting that while you can love everyone, you can't save everyone.

In the common parlance of today it goes by the name Tough Love. Every inactive Mason knows how to come back to Lodge. It is not my job to coax him back, it is his job to overcome whatever demon is inside of him that prevents him from coming back. And if I make it so easy for him to come back that he does not have to deal with the demon that kept him away have I really helped him?

 

[coachn]

--If you think I mean this, then you are wrong.

I encourage you to reassess the parameters to which you put forth your wholly inaccurate judgment. The wholesale statement of the wrongness of me as a human being has absolutely nothing to do with the statement I put forth. Furthermore, it is IMPOSSIBLE to change the operations of the Lodge without changing the way that Masonry is PRACTICED. I think that with even a little effort that you can see this to be a true statement. SO, no matter how much you espouse how you do not want to CHANGE Masonry, the instant you CHANGE anything that you are doing in its ADMINISTRATION is the instant that you change its PRACTICE.

You truly cannot have your cake and claim that you have not eaten it too.

But, you are free to believe it, should you wish to keep your claim as a curtain on your stage. The act is still not convincing.

Case in point:

...Your lodge may wish to make some modifications or try some new idea. NO ONE IS SUGGESTING CHANGING MASONRY. I cannot stress that enough.

You cannot make a change such as what you suggest without changing HOW Masonry is PRATICED. Impossible!

I have no data, and you know it.

Just trying to continually confirm this fact, that is all. Things do change.

--I have some background in sales. My church has an outreach program to inactive members. There is a fine line, between showing concern, and nagging.

You mean, like, when some visiting dignitary stands up in the East and insults the attending members by lecturing them on how important it is to get out there to invite the inactives to come back? I agree!

--No one knows how frequently that you should contact an inactive Mason.

Or, if it is even a worthwhile action....

--Sadly, most lodges are content to have the dues coming in, and let it go at that.

As they should since it does keep the doors open in USA lodges, based upon how Masonry is practiced here.

--Twice a year, is an arbitrary number, of course. Maybe four times a year, would be more appropriate, I honestly don't know. The important thing , is to reach out to your inactives, in some manner.

Yes, but the intention behind that reaching out is all important. To inform and keep connected is important. To nag is detrimental and only serves to drive already inactive members further away.

 

[LAMason]

… If a lodge is informing ALL members regularly, more members will be aware of the activities, and participation will increase…

Have you ever sent out newsletters to the members of your Lodge or been involved in an effort to get inactive members to attend? I have, I was first elected Secretary of my Lodge in 1977 immediately after serving as WM in 1976 and served as Secretary for many years. Several times over the course of my tenure as Secretary I personally prepared and sent quarterly newsletters to every member of my Lodge. Each effort lasted about a year and I always had the same result. It did not influence inactive members to attend. As far as online newsletters, I do not see how they would be any more effective. While a print newsletter is sent to every member, online newsletters would only reach members who actually visit the website. Have you collected any Lodge website analytics that would indicate the percent of Lodge members that actually visit their Lodge websites or collected data from Lodges that have online newsletters or print newsletters that show participation increased as a result of having the newsletters?

In addition to this I also have been personally involved in efforts in my Lodge, Chapter, and Council to get inactive members to attend by calling and visiting them. We would divide up the inactive members who lived locally based on who was best acquainted with them and then call or visit them to invite them and let them know what was going on in the Lodge, also if they needed transportation to meeting that would also be arranged. Again, very little response. Sometimes one or two inactive members would attend but quickly drop out again.

I will not be so bold as you and make the generalization that these things will not work in every Lodge and there certainly may be others that have had different results from similar efforts.

IF administrative procedures can be altered/modified, to accommodate the membership, it follows that participation will increase.

I really do not see how you can draw such a conclusion. What administrative procedures other than online dues payments are you referring to? And again, have you collected any data from Lodges that have instituted online dues payments or altered/modified other administrative procedures that show that participation increased?

Drawing a conclusion without evidence to support it is not reasoning, it is conjecture.

EDIT: I am not saying that Lodges should not have newsletters, websites, or use social media if they want to, but I have not seen any evidence that they are effective in increasing attendance/participation.

 

[LAMason]

...Masonry must continually "sell" itself to inactive members....

Why?

 

[LAMason]

My 2 cents:

"...Intrinsic motivators drive people to do things because they like to do a particular task; no external incentive is necessary. For example, someone who is intrinsically motivated to meet challenging objectives would likely do well in a sales position with challenging sales goals. Extrinsic motivation on the other hand drives people to do things to get an external reward. For example, someone does a job, even though they do not like it, so that they can earn money...."

http://competeoutsidethebox.com/wp-content/uploads/articles/The Motivated Employee.pdf

Members who attend Lodge regularly do so because they are intrinsically motivated. On the other hand members that do not attend are not intrinsically motivated and it is unlikely that they can be extrinsically motivated because they do not see an external reward, because in my opinion Freemasonry's rewards are internal.

 

[cemab4y]

I encourage you to reassess the parameters to which you put forth your wholly inaccurate judgment. The wholesale statement of the wrongness of me as a human being has absolutely nothing to do with the statement I put forth. Furthermore, it is IMPOSSIBLE to change the operations of the Lodge without changing the way that Masonry is PRACTICED. I think that with even a little effort that you can see this to be a true statement. SO, no matter how much you espouse how you do not want to CHANGE Masonry, the instant you CHANGE anything that you are doing in its ADMINISTRATION is the instant that you change its PRACTICE.

I must disagree. If you think that by giving members the option of paying dues on-line, is a change in how "Masonry is practiced", then you are wrong. If you think that underwriting a public television program is a change in how "Masonry is practiced" you are wrong here as well. If you think that replacing a print newsletter with an electronic newsletter is a change in how "Masonry is practiced", then you are wrong a third time.

You mean, like, when some visiting dignitary stands up in the East and insults the attending members by lecturing them on how important it is to get out there to invite the inactives to come back? I agree!

This is nonsense on steroids.

 

[Glen Cook]

My 2 cents:

"...Intrinsic motivators drive people to do things because they like to do a particular task; no external incentive is necessary. For example, someone who is intrinsically motivated to meet challenging objectives would likely do well in a sales position with challenging sales goals. Extrinsic motivation on the other hand drives people to do things to get an external reward. For example, someone does a job, even though they do not like it, so that they can earn money...."

http://competeoutsidethebox.com/wp-content/uploads/articles/The Motivated Employee.pdf

Members who attend Lodge regularly do so because they are intrinsically motivated. On the other hand members that do not attend are not intrinsically motivated and it is unlikely that they can be extrinsically motivated because they do not see an external reward, because in my opinion Freemasonry's rewards are internal.

Hmm. Right with you till last clause: Freemason's rewards being internal. It is to your credit you should think so. Many do perceive an external reward of title, gold and jewel.

 

[cemab4y]

I cherish my masonic experiences. I have received "master's wages", symbolic wages, of course. I have never had the honor of serving the Craft as an officer. Different men receive different rewards, of course. I have donated many hours to the Craft (and the appendants that I choose to join). I honestly have no interest in titles, jewels, commemorative aprons, or getting my photo on the wall of my lodge.

It is amazing what can be accomplished, when you do not care who gets the credit.

 

[cemab4y]

Or, if it is even a worthwhile action....

I believe that keeping in contact with your inactives is a worthwhile action. If only to ensure that you have the correct address to send their dues notice to.

As they should since it does keep the doors open in USA lodges, based upon how Masonry is practiced here.

Has Masonry sunk to such a low level, that we must rely on the financial support of inactive members, just to keep the doors open? If you believe that lodges should completely ignore the men who are "keeping the doors open", then the Masonry that I have cherished for 33 years, is GONE.

Yes, but the intention behind that reaching out is all important. To inform and keep connected is important. To nag is detrimental and only serves to drive already inactive members further away.

This comment seems to contradictory to your previous comment. First you say "let it go at that", and then you say "To inform and keep connected is important". What are you saying? Should we let it go at that, and just continue to let the money roll in, or should we inform and keep connected?