What would you like to see changed in the Masonic experience?

[Brock693]

Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

And as far as not having technology in the lodge. IMO I don't think not having it is a problem. My lodge is old school all the way and our numbers are not affected by it in the least. Even our visitor numbers are good and they do not have a problem with the technology use or lack there of rather.

 

[cemab4y]

Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

There are lodges who keep their records in a ledger book, and write everything down with a ball-point pen. In Kentucky, the grand Lodge mandated that all subordinate lodges adopt a certain software package. This was required, so that all lodges will keep their financial records in a uniform manner.

The Grand Lodge of Ohio, mandated that all subordinate lodges operate a web page. This move was made, because too many lodges refused to get one. The regulation was passed at their Grand communication, NOT unanimously. But all lodges complied.

The Grand Lodge of New York has a series of regulations, which establish the type and format of all lodge websites in the entire state. This move was necessary, because lodge websites must be configured as to not present a possible conflict of interest or expose the Grand Lodge to legal liability.

I predict that we are going to see more cases of Grand Lodges, dragging subordinate lodges into the internet age, with some of the lodges kicking and screaming every inch of the way.

 

[cemab4y]

Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

From Doug: Already jurisdiction after jurisdiction have seen increased petition rates and now some jurisdictions are seeing increased memberships.

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What is your source for this statement? The MSANA publishes statistics, provided by the Grand Lodges in the USA/Canada.

In 2012, about 44 states reported a net loss of membership. The national net loss is reported at -36,950.

How have you arrived as such a rosy scenario?

 

[JohnnyFlotsam]

Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

Freemasonry grew to over 5,000,000 in the USA without a PC in sight.

And now Masonry is not growing. It is declining. The year is 2013, not 1959 (the peak year for the USA, according to MSANA). The world is different. The men who would be Masons are different. What attracted millions of men to Freemasonry in 1959 will not do so now, and if you think that it's "Masonry" that attracted them, think again.

I do not see anything but continued decline unless Masonry changes. Certainly, technology isn't going to "save" Masonry, but the necessary changes would have to include modern technology. I can't even pay my dues online? Seriously?

I have been in a couple of aging, but still grand Scottish Rite auditoriums. We've all seen pictures at least, of some of the most stunning examples which, in their day, employed state of the art technology as part of the experience. Gee, wouldn't it be nice if someone had enough imagination to employ a little bit of that today.

Now, mind you. I'm not opposed to decline either. I rather hope that it continues so the the Craftsmen who remain can focus on their labor instead of spending their time worrying about membership, aging lodge buildings that have outlived their usefulness, organized charities, etc.

 

[Brother JC]

Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

MSANA doesn't record Petitions, Affiliations, or Degrees, so we have no way of viewing growth within the Craft (as opposed to the continued loss of "the glut" membership due to crossing over). While neither I nor Doug have those numbers, I'd be willing to bet that nation-wide we are seeing more new members than previous years.

 

[cemab4y]

Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

MSANA collects the information from the various Grand Lodges. The methodology that the GL's use, is most certainly not uniform. Some Masons belong to more than one lodge, so these men will be counted twice. (I myself, belong to lodges in KY and Mass). The data that MSANA publishes is subject to statistical anomalies.

The important thing to do, is to "look past", the data collection techniques, and grasp the overall picture. My home lodge had over 600 members when I was raised in 1982. Today, it has less than 200 members.

I am interested in how you can analyze this data, and arrive at a conclusion that nationally, we are seeing more new members than previous years.

All over the USA, lodges are closing (Two lodges that I belonged to in the past are gone). Masonic organizations are having to sell off assets.

Please tell me, what is the source of your information, which leads you to believe that Masonry is growing (nationally)?

 

[cemab4y]

Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

And bottomed out approximately now. Already jurisdiction after jurisdiction have seen increased petition rates and now some jurisdictions are seeing increased memberships. The sky fell on Chicken Little already. "He's dead, Jim". Not an issue to fuss about any more - Find out what the thriving lodges in your geography are doing and emulate them. There ARE thriving lodges in your geography.

===I agree with most points here. The decline in membership is NOT uniform! Lodges which are adapting to the new demographic realities, and embracing technology are growing. Lodges which deliver a valuable masonic experience are growing.

Stuff I would like -

Drop the prohibition against invitations. A brother should be able to offer a petition to a friend. The folks who have not noticed that the sky is no longer falling may think this is about reversing the decline. I'm okay letting them think that. To me it is about having a less random candidate pool. Rather than waiting for a random candidate to accidentally find out there are no invitations and a lot of the good ones going to organizations that do invite, we should be there for the good ones.

===I am in agreement. Men who are opposed to invitation, keep saying "quality over quantity". This ignores the fact, if Masonry could recruit new members, we would have MORE control over the type of men who petition!

Drop the prohibition. This one has already been mentioned but it bears repeating. Not being able to have a brew after a meeting is ridiculous. Groups of brothers to go to local pubs, I did that after a meeting this week, but we should be able to at our own facility. Because of how state laws work this already happens in California and probably some other states. Among other issues this change would make Table Lodge less problematic. The Imperial level of the Shrine might not like the change as it gives them competition.

===I agree! The moderate use of alcoholic beverages is part of our tradition. Only with the disaster of Prohibition, did lodges in the USA ban alcohol. In almost every other country in the world, there is alcohol in lodges.

Move the balance of power back in favor of the local lodges. A number of grand lines have become various degrees of problematic over the years. Out of balanced GMs have used their power of edict to expel brothers without trial. The result has been anything from personal turmoil for an ejected brother through national disgrace for playing into the hands of Imperial Shrine maneuvering. By excess GL power we get management by threatening to pull charters. Take the lesson of European jurisdictions and reduce the power of the grand line.

===I find myself in agreement somewhat. There are cases of Grand Masters running roughshod over indvidual Masons, and acting in a manner that is not in our best interests. Nevertheless, Some degree of direction from Grand Lodges is necessary. Grand Lodges must keep uniformity of ritual in their jurisdiction. GL's must ensure that financial records of all subordinate lodges are kept properly, and that computer software in all lodges is uniform. The task is to find the right "balance" of GL direction and indiivdual lodge autonomy.

Get grand lines to focus on chartering lodges. The push for membership has lodge lines focus oh raising candidates and this is as it should be because without that we don't have another generation. The same perspective is needed at the next level up. Give them something to do other than getting in the way. Give them the glory of chartering new lodges.

==I am in agreement. In pre-industrial America, a lodge of more than 100 members was unthinkable. Mega-lodges are the result of urbanization, and consolidation of lodges.

Grand Lodges may have to impose a "cap" on the number of members, and when a lodge exceeds the "cap", a new lodge must break off and start anew.

Good ideas! Keep them coming!

 

[cemab4y]

Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

From JJones: quote On the other hand, I don't see why a lodge couldn't/wouldn't invite community leaders or upright gentlemen to their events. Once they start associating with the members in the right setting then they'd be more likely to ask questions and request a petition if they're interested. Ofcourse we'd have to actually hold events and serve something besides fried fish.
(unquote)

My home lodge in KY does exactly this. Every February, we hold a "George Washington Birthday banquet" . We sometimes hire a G.W. impersonator.

We do the banquet, and all lodge members may bring guests who are not Masons. We serve the meal, then we have a speech presented about G.W. and Masonry. Then we give the attendees a tour of the building, and distribute literature about Masonry, and how to petition. There is a stack of petition forms prominently displayed.

The result usually is, a slew of new petitions!

Other lodges can emulate this idea. I believe that once men are exposed to Masonry, and can latch into the ideas and concepts of the Craft, that petitions and new members will be the result.

 

[Bro Darren]

Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

Here is a little extract from this month edition of "engage" UGL AF&AM Victoria (Freemasons Victoria) that I thought you may be interested in

December Quarterly Communication
The past eight Quarterly Communication of Grand Lodge have
been live streamed, enabling members who are unable to attend,
to view the event. Freemasons Victoria has established this viewing
option so that members can either log in from the comfort of their
own home, or log on at their nearest Masonic Centre and watch
the event with other members. Live at selected Masonic centres
(see your district coordinator).
We would very much appreciate your attendance at the Dallas
Brooks Centre on Wednesday 18 December, however if you choose
to log on, simply use this link:


http://www.freemasonsvic.net.au/Video/live-streaming-andwebcasts/

For those interested in the full edition
https://app.box.com/s/4nus427tus7k8f65zxwx

 

[Brother JC]

Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

Charles, you're comparing bottom-line numbers to 30 years ago, which includes the greatest death-rate in the history of Freemasonry. I'm comparing this years petitions to last year's, and the year before that, and I see growth. Pardon me for having faith in my fraternity.

 

[cemab4y]

Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

Charles, you're comparing bottom-line numbers to 30 years ago, which includes the greatest death-rate in the history of Freemasonry. I'm comparing this years petitions to last year's, and the year before that, and I see growth. Pardon me for having faith in my fraternity.

Let's make sure we are on the same page here. I am delighted to see that California is one of the few states with an increase in membership. Here is the report for 2012:

CALIFORNIA

(2011) 57,250

(2012) 63,546 net gain:

+6,296

Regardless of your success, the national net decline was -29.964 in 2012.

Whatever it is that California is doing, should be emulated by other states.

I can definetly see growth in California (and some other states). But I do not see national growth. Where do you see this national growth?

If you wish to have faith in the fraternity, then wonderful. But in addition to faith, there is EFFORT. Grand Lodges, Lodges, and Masons need to see that the overall decline is a problem, and take steps to reduce the decline, and turn it around.

"If you do nothing, you get nothing"- Aung San Suu Kyi, Nobel Prize winner, 20 years under house arrest.

 

[cemab4y]

Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

When someone asks me, why are you interested in reversing the decline, and getting Masonry growing again, I always reply:

I am concerned more about the death rate, in Masonry.

They ask: "What is the death rate for Masons"?

My reply: 100% , same as for everyone .

 

[Zack]

Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

I say again(and again and again) we do not have a membership problem. We have a retention problem.
In my jurisdiction we lose more members to NPD then to death. We can make Masons but fail to keep them.
I'd bet your jurisdiction is the same.

CEM resurrects this periodically across the forums. Second act; Masonic license plates. That and a Facebook page will solve the problem.

 

[cemab4y]

Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

This is an important topic, and needs to be discussed. I am a statistician, (formerly with the US census bureau). I look at these statistics, and see a decline in our absolute numbers. Other men see these numbers, and say everything is fine. No problem.

I agree that in some (not all) jurisdictions, the losses due to demits/resignations/suspension is outpacing the losses due to deaths. Is it better to lose money from your right pocket or your left pocket? The numbers continue to decline, year after year.

Stanching the loss, and possibly reversing it, requires acknowledging that there is a problem. Most masons are not convinced that there is a problem.

Once the problem is acknowledged, then the cause of the problem must be identified. If the loss is due to demit/resignations/suspensions, then the Craft needs to be examined, and find out the cause(s).

Then the remedy can be identified. I believe sincerely, that if the Masonic experience provided VALUE to the Mason, then the man would be less likely to drop out. If a man gets no value for his participation, he will cease to participate.

 

[Brother JC]

Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

Reread my original comment, Charles, I specifically said "I believe." I also said I don't have the numbers, because no one (MSANA included) publishes them. My main point of contention is that we don't have broad-spectrum statistics, and without them we can't identify the problem.

 

[Brother JC]

Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

Brother Martin and I have taken this slightly off-track, so I'll add my thoughts on things other than just membership numbers...

I agree that we have a retention problem, but in my eyes the thing that needs to change the most is participation. When someone is asked how many members show up to a Communication on average, the most constant reply seems to be "ten-percent." It's true in my NM lodges as well, though one has seen more than 50% of the membership lately. That lodge has changed a lot in the last five years, and it shows.
You can bring in all the new members you want, but if no one participates, your lodge will fall.

 

[cemab4y]

Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

I understand. The statistics published by MSANA are not uniformly collected by the grand lodges, and there is no way of knowing (from this data) who resigned and who died.

Here is a terrific article, on this subject. It is a few years old, but still relevant.

http://www.freemasoninformation.com/2009/06/there’s-a-hole-in-our-bucket/

 

[dfreybur]

Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

Let's make sure we are on the same page here. I am delighted to see that California is one of the few states with an increase in membership. Here is the report for 2012:

CALIFORNIA

(2011) 57,250

(2012) 63,546 net gain:

+6,296

Regardless of your success, the national net decline was -29.964 in 2012.

Membership is a trailing indicator. It tells what happened decades ago. The issue is NOW not decades ago.

What is needed is a leading indicator not a trailing indicator. There are in fact a leading indicators available. They are initiations and raisings. Those are the numbers to graph. Look up the initiations and raisings in your jurisdiction to see what has been happening. A few years ago I compared every decade in Illinois history plus the most recent decade. Both initiations and raisings saw a downward trend that bottomed out well over a decade ago. Both initiations and raisings are now in an upward trend.

To have better data I suggest calculating a 5 year rolling average and graph that per year. Do it for initiations, raisings and membership. Do it for your jurisdiction and every jurisdiction you have data for. At least California and Texas already see increasing membership - the trailing indicator of what already happened long ago. Currently Illinois sees some years with increasing membership and some years with declining membership - we have had an increasing trend of initiations and raisings long enough that the membership is bottoming out approximately now.

It is the leading indicators that predict, so they are the ones that need to be used for projections. The leading indicators are very clear that all 3 of my jurisdictions California, Illinois and Texas have a growing trend of new members. When I hear the anecdotal evidence of lodges elsewhere struggling to keep their degree teams functioning to keep up with the load, I conclude the trend is up across most US jurisdictions.

When predicting the future use the leading indicators. When analyzing the past use the trailing indicators. What far too many brothers are doing here is using the trailing indicator to predict the future and ignoring the leading indicators.

Whatever it is that California is doing, should be emulated by other states.

... and Texas and the other jurisdictions where the trailing indicator already shows growth. The two jurisdictions have very different practices and policies by the way. What is common is they are magnet states for young adults - They are riding a wave of generational change not of their own creation. Both have been very good at accepting new brothers of the new generation.

Also those jurisdictions where the leading indicators show growth. That's a *lot* more jurisdictions than the few with membership growth.

Where do you see this national growth?

In the predictive aka leading indicators.

[/QUOTE]If you wish to have faith in the fraternity, then wonderful.[/QUOTE]

I also have faith in the right numbers - initiations and raising trends - and in the wave of generational trends that has young men petitioning in droves. Industry might call them Millennials. I think we will end up calling them the Life Balance generation.

 

[Browncoat]

Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

There is a lot of speculation about the cause and effects of the membership decline and how to fix it. The most obvious being the generation gap (few Baby Boomer Masons) and the fact that Masonry has so much more to compete with these days.

1. Embrace technology. It must be done if Freemasonry is going to survive in the 21st century. The Craft has endured this long because it has changed and adapted to the times and must continue to do so now more than ever.

2. A Purpose. I read a lot of complaints about boredom...about reading minutes and just going through the motions. Being a member for the sole sake of paying dues is a silly premise, so Lodges who offer no benefits should just die out. Seeking MORE members isn't the answer, BETTER members is.

Sent From My Freemasonry Mobile App

 

[Bro Darren]

Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

One must also take into consideration the "Baby Boomers" (Aussie Name for the those born just after WW2) are getting to that age now where they may not be able to afford Dues, or unable to attend meetings so they stop going and resign. This generation was the largest boost in population for most western countries and they are getting "long in the tooth".

I wonder if the Fraternity take up % rate today is the same when you compare the population % rates of today and yesteryear.. Just wondering!