widows son
Premium Member
I just receive the royal arch degree, and let me tell you, my wand just got bigger.
Well. I dont know about all that, but all I ever herd was thet Masonary isnt ocult, and we arent nothing but a fraternity.
Well. I dont know about all that, but all I ever herd was thet Masonary isnt ocult, and we arent nothing but a fraternity. Thats why we always invite the woman and famlies when ever we eat or have an isntalations
If this where a social club it would be where the other social clubs like the Oddfellows ended up, in some book as history. Masonry's rabbit hole is much deeper than any social organization allowing the Masons curiosity to run free and while most are scared to death of the depths of the hole some Masons realize this is a rough and rugged journey one in which lives have been lost. Humans are notorious for believing what they want to be true and I think the Inquisition proved how futile it can be to attempt to change another's believes. I feel about all we can do is what has been done here and that is voice our feelings as to what the craft is so others are not scared to mold their believes by what they truly believe not what somebody pressures them into believing. I did hide my wand out of respect when I took into lodge, after reading this though I will never again. Great post Brother.
... I look around me in the Lodgeroom and see other Brothers who have been there for 30 or 40 years and just sit on the sidelines, some never having been in a 'chair' and it sort of disturbs me. I wonder if that is all they want from Masonry?
Let's define the issue starkly:
If the "occult" elements (i.e., Theosophy, religious Gnosticism, Chakras, etc.) are necessary elements to fully be a Mason, then there is no way that someone can be a conventional Trinitarian Christian* and be a Mason.
However, if all this stuff is really just extra baggage that is thoroughly disposable, then there's no problem.
You cannot be both a conventional Trinitarian Christian and adopt Theosophy, Gnosticism, etc. The doctrines are mutually exclusive.
There's nothing wrong with Masons of similar interest getting together, but to claim that these interests are more than sidelines to Freemasonry turns Freemasonry into a religion, and one that would not be compatible with the religions of the majority of Freemasons.
It's really simple, if the "occult" stuff really is necessary to fully be a Freemason, all the way, deep down, breadth and depth, then Freemasonry is incompatible with conventional Trinitarian Christianity, with the majority of Judaism, with Islam, etc.
If the "occult" stuff is what separates "true" Masons from mere "surface" Masons, then nobody who adheres to the doctrines of the larger conventional religions in the USA could ever become a "true" Mason.
Membership in and doctrine of the Shinto religion and Christianity are mutually exclusive yet here we are an organization with plenty of members of both.
Fundie folks often claim that Masonry is a religion. Please resist sharing that tactic with them.
Some of the occult content of Masonry comes out of the Kabbalah.
Tolerance is respect not agreement. Tolerance is peace not acceptance. Tolerance is open mindedness not approval. Tolerance is getting past whether you agree, accept or approve and finding common ground. Tolerance when done right has the same type of overlap as our ambiguous mixing of the words charity and love. Tolerance is generosity rather like charity is love.
Degrees which include elements that you have stated are mutually exclusive. Degrees that trigger intolerant actions by the intolerant and tolerant actions by the tolerant.
There are those on these message boards who essentially claim that to be a "true" Mason, one must become a Gnostic--adopt a specific religion, and make it plain that they think it is a good thing, that those Masons who do not embrace Gnosticism are somehow falling short.
a basic understanding of the concepts of Kaballah are necessary to fully understand some of Masonry.
Specifically because Freemasonry requires adopting the unique doctrines of neither. What bothers me are those who take Gnostic/Theosophical/etc. elements and proclaim them as some sort of "deeper" or "higher" Masonic teaching. You don't do this, but there are those who do. The teachings might or might not be "deep" or "high" but they are not a mark of being "more Masonic".
There are those on these message boards who essentially claim that to be a "true" Mason, one must become a Gnostic--adopt a specific religion, and make it plain that they think it is a good thing, that those Masons who do not embrace Gnosticism are somehow falling short.
So? Does that mean that Masons must become kabbalists?
And this has what to do with the price of tea in China? I say again, if the "occult" stuff is what separates "true" from "surface" Masons, then nobody who isn't into the "occult" stuff can be considered a "true" mason. It's got nothing to do with tolerance, it's got to do with immutable logic.
If A is a necessary condition to be B, then whatever lacks A cannot be B. If something can be B without having A, then A cannot be a necessary condition to be B.
What I have seen has in no way looked like I must delve into anything "occult" to "truly" be a Mason.
What is an eye above a structure? I can easily answer that it is the all-seeing eye of Divine Providence. What is a column? What is an obelisk? None of these things must have a specific "occult" interpretation. This is part of the wisdom of our forebears in harvesting so many symbols from so many sources--they underpin the fundamental unity of brotherhood. For while there may be differences in what each of us considers the ultimate source of Light, we all agree that we need Light.
Is a ladder to the sky a reference to Mount Meru, Jacob's Ladder, or the Ladder of Divine Ascent? It is a reference to the journey from the worldly world to the enlightened world. Beyond that, the specific "meaning" is chosen by each individual Mason and none can say one is "more true" than the other by virtue of it being more or less "esoteric" or "occult".
We are so very easily entrapped by the romance of the "esoteric", thinking that the more obscure and outre an interpretation, the more "true" it must be. "Manchmal ist eine Zigarre aben nur eine Zigarre."
Appendent bodies claim to be "further" rather than "higher".
No and that's my point. By participating in the degrees we partake in some kabbalistic practices. Doing so does not make us kabbalists. Nonetheless those kabbalistic practices are there to any who know what to look for. Not knowing what to look for does not mean they are not present.
It is not necessary to accept the validity of occult practices to be a Mason. But any of us who give a due guard and sign do an occult practice whether we know it or not
Occult means hidden.
Not knowing they are chakra activations does not make them not chakra activations.
Why don't we say "tits" instead of "breasts"?
Therefore, using your reasoning, all boys are really girls!
Alas, not true. The front page of the official web site for the Scottish Rite for Australia states that the 33rd degree is "the highest and last in Freemasonry". That's pretty darn specific. Likewise, Pike made it quite plain that Blue Lodge is deficient and insufficient.
I never denied they were present.