First, I heard of this. Wasn't an issue to me as I was not gonna visit any lodge until after I was raised. I am sure you know my mentor. He was from another lodge. JPM from Memorial lodge and a member of the Shrine.
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Traveling
- Thread starter Dontrell Stroman
- Start date
First, I heard of this. Wasn't an issue to me as I was not gonna visit any lodge until after I was raised. I am sure you know my mentor. He was from another lodge. JPM from Memorial lodge and a member of the Shrine.
I was thinking maybe UGLE but a typo?
Levelhead
Premium Member
Another Masonic Mystery solved
Dontrell Stroman
Premium Member
So if Prince Hall is regular, then how could a Grand Lodge consider them clandestine ? There not irregular because they do follow Masonic customs.
LAMason
Premium Member
How does the CGNMA determine "Legitimacy of Origin"?
dfreybur
Premium Member
Ignorance of the difference between irregular and clandestine. Combined with unMasonic motivations to speak about a group of brothers behind their backs besmirching their reputations. Combined with ignorance of having been taught that.
I suggest this might not be true if tested. Back when CT first recognized PHA, some jurisdictions pulled recognition. Granting recognition and pulling recognition are swords that cut both ways. Remember that jurisdictions that pulled CT recognition became the laughing stock of the Masonic world and relented in a couple of years.
What will happen if some state recognizes one of the PHA jurisdictions on the list of "Conference of Grand Masters, Prince Hall Masons, Inc" but that does not have local recognition? Would that even technically be a violation of sovereignty? It's not completely clear. Regular GLs get to recognize regular GLs. If the local GLofXX pulls recognition over granting recognition, I may well become the laughing stock of the Masonic world as happened in the 1980s. Even better if the target that is picked already deserves it like one that danced the dance of mutual destruction with the Shrine in their territory ...
Neither side gets a pass on that accusation. Find a GL that has not granted recognition to the full slate and the finger is appropriately pointed. There are lot of jurisdictions that have not yet extended invitations to all. There are a lot of jurisdictions that have not responded to invitations. Each of us need to clean up our own soul then clean up our own house.
Regular - Valid lineage to the mother jurisdictions. Follow all of the ancient landmarks. Available to be recognized.
Clandestine - Lineage based on a self organized jurisdiction. And/or does not follow all of the ancient landmarks.
Recognized - A vote or edict has been issued that recognition is in place.
The process of recognition closely parallels the process between countries. Does any country not realize that Cuba is a country? Yet the US has long decided to not recognize Cuba for reasons other than "They really are a country at this point". Sure enough the argument for some time was basically calling Cuba clandestine because of invalid lineage.
dfreybur
Premium Member
Terminology varies.
Cow - Species common name with bull as the male, bossy as the female, steer as the castrated male.
Cattle - Species common name with bull as the male, cow as the female, ox as the castrated male.
LAMason
Premium Member
So, are you suggesting that recognition of the Grand Lodge of Arkansas be pulled because you do not agree with what they did?
LAMason
Premium Member
Some people may use it in that manner but it is not correct.
dfreybur
Premium Member
The best reason - A couple of years ago the MWGM of the MWPHGLofAR issued an edict recognizing all GLofXX that recognize MWPHGLofXX. Since then recognizing MWPHGLofAR is returning a favor already granted.
So I am suggesting that MWPHGLofAR be recognized in spite of lack of local recognition. Then if GLofAR or any other GLofXX pulls recognition for it, laugh at them. It happened before when GLofCT recognized MWPHGLofCT so it should work again.
It would be a tough sell on the floor at any Grand Lodge communication and unlikely to pass. it might be worth the effort. I figure it would have to be proposed every other year for several times, just like happened before in some states when local recognition was worked on.
dfreybur
Premium Member
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle
It is among the several acceptable usages. Not the usage common in your geography it seems.
LAMason
Premium Member
So you want to create a recognition war between State Grand Lodges that have recognized each other for decades. And how could this be good for Freemasonry in the U S?
In the states with no recognition, the Prince Hall grand lodges are regular but unrecognized. It is really borderline unmasonic to call a regular grand lodge clandestine. Some people wouldn't use the borderline. Yet, some of these states do. But there is no racism at all. Yeah right!
LAMason
Premium Member
The noun cattle (which is treated as a plural and has no singular) encompasses both sexes. The singular, cow, unambiguously means the female, the male being bull. The plural feminine form cows is sometimes used colloquially to refer to both sexes collectively, as e.g. in a herd, but that usage can be misleading as the speaker's intent may indeed be just the females. The bovine species per se is clearly dimorphic.
This is the note from the source you referenced. As you can see it say the "plural feminine form cows" can be used to refer to both sexes, not the singular feminine for "cow" which was how it was used in the post.
Funny how you keep saying that but yet you couldn't answer any of the questions I asked you earlier or provide any examples.
Levelhead
Premium Member
What do you want? Florida don't recognize prince hall. Get over it. Worry about bettering yourself and your lodge. Focus on positive and not negative.
Im not worrying about prince hall recognizing me. I don't care.
Wish it wasn't that way but what can i do?
Just cause i cant sit in your lodge dont mean were not both widows sons and brothers.
Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom.
Im not worrying about prince hall recognizing me. I don't care.
Wish it wasn't that way but what can i do?
Just cause i cant sit in your lodge dont mean were not both widows sons and brothers.
Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom.
Why are you so defensive about it? Please tell me how this Prince Hall racism affects your grand lodge. Interesting that you chose Levelhead as an username.