Tuxedo versus Black suit

Discussion in 'Officers of the Lodge' started by Lowcarbjc, Aug 4, 2013.

  1. CLewey44

    CLewey44 Registered User

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    Well I hate you feel that way.
     
  2. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    By The Rules of Etiquette. If the Governor invited you to a semi formal dinner and you showed up in shirt and tie you’d be turned away.
    We in the US have little knowledge of etiquette compared to our Brethren across the seas. I blame it on xenophobia. We always think we invented everything.
    A great example of proper formal wear (and international differences) is a picture of Dubya and Mrs with Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip; the Prince’s tails are properly fitted and certainly his, while Dubya’s are I’ll-fitted and probably rented.
    Each lodge to their own, but one should at least have a grasp of how the rest of the world works. You never know when you might be invited to a state dinner.
     
  3. LK600

    LK600 Premium Member

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    So here's what I found to explain it (yes.. I would need this lol)


    White Tie


    •Black dress coat (tailcoat), matching trousers with a single stripe of satin or braid in the US; two stripes in Europe or the UK

    •White piqué wing-collared shirt with stiff front

    •Braces, to ensure a good fit

    •Shirt studs and cuff links

    •White vest

    •White bow tie

    •White or gray gloves

    •Black patent shoes and black dress socks



    Black Tie


    •Black tuxedo jacket and matching trousers

    •Formal (piqué or pleated front) white shirt

    •Shirt studs and cuff links

    •Black bow tie (silk, satin, or twill)

    •Black cummerbund to match tie, or a vest

    •Dressy braces to ensure a good fit (optional)

    •No gloves

    •Black patent shoes and black dress socks

    •In summer, in the tropics, or on a cruise: White dinner jacket, black tuxedo trousers plus other black tie wardrobe


    Creative Black Tie


    •Tuxedo combined with trendy or whimsical items, such as a black shirt or a matching colored or patterned bow tie and cummerbund


    Black Tie Optional


    •Tuxedo (see “Black Tie” above)

    •Dark suit, white dress shirt, and conservative tie

    •Leather dress shoes and dark dress socks


    Semiformal


    •Dark, business suit

    •Matching vest (optional)

    •Dress shirt

    •Tie

    •Leather dress shoes and dark dress socks



    Festive Attire (usually for the holidays)


    •Seasonal sport coat or blazer in color of choice, and slacks

    •Open-collar shirt, or dress shirt

    •Tie—festive or with a holiday theme



    Business Formal*


    •Dark business suit

    •Matching vest (optional)

    •Dress shirt

    •Conservative tie

    •Leather dress shoes and dark dress socks


    Business Casual*


    •Seasonal sport coat or blazer with slacks or khakis

    •Dress shirt, casual button-down shirt, open-collar or polo shirt

    •Optional tie

    •Loafers or loafer-style shoes, and socks


    *Always check and abide by your company’s dress code


    Dressy Casual


    •Seasonal sport coat or blazer, and slacks

    •Dress shirt, casual button-down shirt, open-collar or polo shirt

    •Optional tie


    Casual


    •Khakis or good jeans (clean, no holes)

    •Cargo or Bermuda shorts—depending on occasion and climate

    •Plain T-shirt (no slogans), polo shirt, turtleneck

    •Casual button-down shirt and/or sweater

    •Loafers, sneakers (with or without socks), sandals
     
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  4. Elexir

    Elexir Registered User

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    For lodge, black best ;)
     
  5. HoldenMonty

    HoldenMonty Registered User

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    It all depends on the jurisdiction and doing some homework on proper wear before you visit a Lodge to make sure you won't be over or under dressed. I think I remember hearing my dad say that to be a worshipful master in Pennsylvania that you are suppose to wear tails and if you are an officer you are suppose to wear a tux and everybody else can wear a dark colored suit with a dark colored tie. So as most discussions about fine details like what you wear to lodge really depends on what jurisdiction you are in.
     
  6. chrmc

    chrmc Registered User

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    The debate on dress code always ends up there, because people often take the comments as an attack on them, which I don't think is intended.
    I have my personal opinion on proper lodge attire, but to me it's up to the lodge and local customs. If people want blue jeans and a polo and that's the norm, so be it. Same thing with a tuxedo.
    The only thing I will continue to harp on is uniformity across all members to be on the level and then proper respect for the Craft. Whatever that will mean for the lodge.

    I will however say though that as brother Lewey touched upon, a number of the younger men especially in the metropolitan areas probably have an expectation, and maybe even a desire, for a more upscale code of dress. We need to remember this.

    Dress code is an example that to a large extend ends up being a symbol for people's approach to the Craft. If one thinks the lodge room is just a room, that the weekly meeting is mainly about getting together with the guys and the ritual text is neat, but that's it, then the approach in attire is probably the same.
    Whilst if you believe that the lodge is a sacred space, the ritual contains life altering words, and the fraternal relations should be second to none, you'll probably tend to dress in a more solemn way accordingly.
     
  7. Keith C

    Keith C Registered User

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    I thought that was the case as well. My WM, SW, JW and DDGM all have confirmed that ALL officers SHOULD be wearing Tails, but the WM, SW and JW MUST.

    Also I agree with you chrmc, it would be better if everyone was uniform. That is something that appeals to me about the TO lodge near me.
     
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  8. Keith C

    Keith C Registered User

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    I would also like to point out that I have about an hour or so to figure out how to tie a bow tie before I head off to our stated meeting tonight! Thank the GAOTU for youtube!
     
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  9. HoldenMonty

    HoldenMonty Registered User

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    @Keith C thank you for the clarification. I think the book I should pickup is the Pennsylvania rule book because I can't remember off the top of my head the name of it but to read it and make sure I get to know them well. I have been working on the guide work for the first degree.
     
  10. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    Yep.
     
  11. GJB

    GJB Registered User

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  12. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    Why?


    Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry
     
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  13. goomba

    goomba Neo-Antient Site Benefactor

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    I prefer to wear a suit or tux when attending lodge. I also believe it is the responsibility of the lodge to inform candidates and then teach new EA's of the lodges particulars. For lodges who wear tuxedos this includes proper wear of the tuxedo.

    Here is the guide I use: http://www.blacktieguide.com/Classic/Classic_Intro.htm
    For an affordable option of tux/suites: https://alaindupetit.com/collections/black-suits

    This conversation isn't about blue collar of white collar. It's about our individual tastes and lodge/grand lodge standards. No one forces me to wear a coat and tie. The lodge I was raised in jeans and a polo were normal. I took upon myself to start wearing a coat and tie because for me (me please read that I just said ME) I knew I could do better for the Craft. I personally want a lodge experience that is different from the outside world. I don't want to dress to go lodge and my wife think I'm going to grab a drink with a buddy. I want my outer expression to match my inner desire to purposefully separate what I am about to do as different, special and important. I expect no one to feel as I do however, I shall attempt to find a lodge with at least similar thoughts.

    My dads lodge is jeans and t-shirt. I have no issue visiting that lodge but I know it isn't meant to be my lodge. Different strokes for different folks.
     
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  14. CLewey44

    CLewey44 Registered User

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    Sometimes you have to go against the grain. I went to lodge in a coat and tie and was questioned 'Why you so dressed up for?' I reply, 'Respect for the institution.' But I'm thinking, 'How can you even ask that?" Nobody usually argues with that and all you can hope is a few others will do the same. People are quick to try to call out a person they view as 'overdressed' because they think they're being pretentious or snobby but nobody would say "Why you so under-dressed, brother?" to someone that was wearing a t-shirt and jeans in a lodge that typically wears suit or tux. They would just say, you need to go change, stay out here in the lobby or go home. It never should be a crime to go up a level and hope your brothers follow suit. Bro. Goomba, great points you make here. It's not just a social club for me either. If I wanted that I'd joined something else or nothing at all.
     
  15. Keith C

    Keith C Registered User

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    You will need both the Ahiman Rezon and the current Digest of Decisions.
     
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  16. CLewey44

    CLewey44 Registered User

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    Btw, is that one site for real??? 40 or 50 bucks for pants and coat? That's insanely cheap.
     
  17. goomba

    goomba Neo-Antient Site Benefactor

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    Yep. I have some at home. Shipping isn't free however.

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
     
  18. LK600

    LK600 Premium Member

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    I personally have no issue in what the chosen attire is for a given lodge as long as those attending stick to it and remain on the level. I would not agree with purposely removing yourself from the level in order to dress to your own satisfaction/desires (regardless if for the better or worse). The only issue I have with attire is due to the heat of where I am and the fact I sweat if I look at a picture of the sun lol. But it's difficult for me to focus to seriously on the clothing we wear to a lodge, while the lodges many of us attend look like their ready to give up the ghost. People refusing to take steps to rectify funding to fix anything or even to allow for A/C for more than a couple hours a week.


    Edited for clarity..
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
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  19. Brother_Steve

    Brother_Steve Premium Member

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    The Count of Ripicordo
     
  20. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    I remember reading a UT GM's address. He lamented that in a lodge of 100, only 10 would attend meetings. Sound familiar? It was given c. 1874.
     
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