UGLE Gender Policy

Discussion in 'Masonic Jurisprudence' started by Ripcord22A, Aug 1, 2018.

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  1. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    Lodge isn’t church-
    The biases you carry and explain away under religious grounds arnt relevant in Masonic policy-
    Keep in mind the the VSL on the alter isn’t always your VSL
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2018
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  2. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    Same here.
    Agreed!
     
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  3. darsehole

    darsehole Registered User

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    No, it isn’t Church. It’s a religious fraternity based on events that happened while building a temple to the GAOTU, in which every member must believe in a Supreme Being, and where the religious text, or VOSL is literally the center of lodge.

    The word of GAOTU, in any form, is the greatest light in Freemasonry.

    As I clearly stated before, the ONLY VOSL I can think of that would encourage this behavior is The Book of the Law on Thelma.

    If there are others, I’d be happy to learn about their stance on gender variance.


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  4. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    Yes and no-
    Freemasonry requires its members to believe in a supreme being but being religious isn’t a requirement-
    These are quite different things.
    So no freemasonry isn’t a religious fraternity per say.

    There is indeed a VSL at the alter, in the room there are also some rocks, som random paintings and at the alter there is also a crude picture of a tie fighter from Star Wars- that’s how it would look if you only take what you see literally as just about all things in that room are allegorical why would the VSL be different?
    This is of cause a rhetorical question-
     
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  5. LK600

    LK600 Premium Member

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    Because we take oaths on it. Are my oaths also allegorical? (I'm not taking a side on this by this comment)
     
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  6. darsehole

    darsehole Registered User

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    Do you consider the VSOL just another piece of furniture, or do you consider it one of the three great lights in our fraternity?

    Which is held between our hands when we recite a obligation to the fraternity.

    We don’t get to pick and choose what parts we like and don’t like.

    It’s the VOSL. The written word of GAOTU.




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  7. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    The VSL is emblematic of truth, virtue and the will of the GAOTU-
    The dogmatic teachings within a specific VSL are relevant only to the individual mason who is a member of that faith-

    It is indeed a great light and like the other 2 great lights they too are allegorical.
     
  8. LK600

    LK600 Premium Member

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    If you added the words... "To me" it would then be accurate.
     
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  9. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    To expect Freemasonry to start forwarding the dogma of all faiths under its banners would be absurd-

    That said you are of course welcome to your opinion but when people start pushing their religious beliefs in the guise of Masonic principals it does the craft a disservice, not to discredit anyone’s religious point of view- it’s just not freemasonrys point of view.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2018
  10. LK600

    LK600 Premium Member

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    That is an argument you and I have not stepped into as of yet. It appears to be directed t0 another argument upstream maybe? My discussion is with your apparent belief that the VSL is nothing more than a prop... like... to use your words, rocks, pictures, and drawings. The VSL has meaning in and of itself regardless of who's version it may be. It is not an emblem of anything; it is itself. If it was a prop... an emblem for something else, our oaths would be meaningless, or worse, a mockery of the real thing.
     
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  11. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    Well the oaths arnt literal are they?
    Any given VSL has intrinsic value to a Brother who subscribes to that faith-yes that’s true-but not all Masons are Religious but are instead spiritual and while meeting the requirements for admission they don’t have a VSL persay as a result any given holy book substitutes.
    Additionally would I be erroneous to say that not all members of a given faith take what is written in their VSL to be literal?
     
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  12. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    That’s the religious interpretation not the Masonic one.
     
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  13. LK600

    LK600 Premium Member

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    Sir, with every additional post I'm getting more confused lol. So the VSL is a prop and your obligation isn't real? Look, it doesn't really matter I guess, you do you. I'm pulling you off the topic of the thread anyway. Peace.
     
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  14. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    Those are your words not mine-
     
  15. LK600

    LK600 Premium Member

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    Then I'll just quote yours...

    Like I said, you do you.
     
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  16. Elexir

    Elexir Registered User

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    Please dont try to speak for all of freemasonry. It just looks awful...
     
  17. darsehole

    darsehole Registered User

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    It seems some take their oaths more seriously than others.

    And some take the VOSL for what it is, and not a “book of obscure guidelines”.


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  18. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    Please show me where I’m wrong?
    If I’m incorrect here I’d love to know about it.
     
  19. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    I take my obligations very seriously and to call into my fidelity because i disagree with your pushing a religious agenda thinly veiled as a Masonic one is quite silly.
    Keep in mind that there are those whose spiritual beliefs have a cold deistic slant for example and they are every bit the mason anyone else is.

    Consider the question asked:
    What is freemasonry?
    I’m sure you remember the answer.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2018
  20. darsehole

    darsehole Registered User

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    Referring to the VOSL as a piece of furniture, suggesting that our obligation should not be taken literally, and insulting a MM because he protests your obvious disregard for both the VOSL and the obligation, is not taking your obligation seriously, IMHO.

    At least not as seriously as some.

    The craft has not thrived for over 300 years by reciting meaningless words on some book that looks pretty on the middle of the room.

    It has been built and maintained by Men of strong moral fiber, whose belief in a Supreme Being and a obligation to one another is un faltering.

    Many of those men still take their literal obligation, on the written word of GAOTU quite seriously.

    More seriously than others.


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