"What you permit, you promote"

[bupton52]

As the poster of "what you permit, you promote" I'll say that it is a phrase used frequently at my place of employment with regard to management of our respective teams. I can completely agree that this doesn't apply across the board, but it certainly applies to some of those behaviors that directly counter the rules and guidelines given to us at work.


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[bupton52]

For example, our handbook calls for all males to be cleanly shaven and shirts tucked in. As a manager, if I permit one employee to do the opposite of this, I'm effectively allowing everyone to do it.


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[Ripcord22A]

For example, our handbook calls for all males to be cleanly shaven and shirts tucked in. As a manager, if I permit one employee to do the opposite of this, I'm effectively allowing everyone to do it.


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What do u do?

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[coachn]

I believe that to be true in a sense that all of mankind (not in gender) is a brotherhood, but as far as the membership requirements of our fraternity RIGHT NOW, that isn't the case. If all GLs changed this tomorrow, this would be different.

Your mindset assumes that the GLs of which you speak govern this; they do not.

Each GL governs only itself. The GLs that have other genders involved in their workings dictate the application of this "title" according to their rules, not yours. No matter how you might want to dismiss reality, it shall persist, and do so long after you can no longer make comment.

 

[bupton52]

Your mindset assumes that the GLs of which you speak govern this; they do not.

Each GL governs only itself. The GLs that have other genders involved in their workings dictate the application of this "title" according to their rules, not yours. No matter how you might want to dismiss reality, it shall persist, and do so long after you can no longer make comment.

Sorry for not being clear and speaking generally, I do understand that each GL is sovereign. I speak for my own GL and what I know of the membership requirements of the GLs here in TX. I haven't heard anything different in any of the other GLs in the States, but I understand that there are different situations overseas.


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[coachn]

Sorry for not being clear and speaking generally, I do understand that each GL is sovereign. I speak for my own GL and what I know of the membership requirements of the GLs here in TX. I haven't heard anything different in any of the other GLs in the States, but I understand that there are different situations overseas.

Agreed! With the caveat added, "GLs that are recognized by yours and mine." There are other unrecognized GLs that have a whole different assignment of this title. Our GLs do not recognize them and hence, it matters not, unless we encounter them. When we do, it is best to act civil.

 

[bupton52]

Agreed! With the caveat added, "GLs that are recognized by yours and mine." There are other unrecognized GLs that have a whole different assignment of this title. Our GLs do not recognize them and hence, it matters not, unless we encounter them. When we do, it is best to act civil.

Freemasons are masters of civility aren't we? I would expect nothing less. lol


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[coachn]

Freemasons are masters of civility aren't we? I would expect nothing less. lol

I have found that my Masonic Brothers are indeed masters in this respect.

My Freemasonic Brothers though are often a mixed bag of nuts when it comes to civility.

 

[Brother JC]

As Masons we are expected to be tolerant of those who worship the same Deity, but differently, and who vote for the same office, but differently. How is it that this tolerance does not extend to those who practice the same gentle Craft, but differently?

 

[bupton52]

As Masons we are expected to be tolerant of those who worship the same Deity, but differently, and who vote for the same office, but differently. How is it that this tolerance does not extend to those who practice the same gentle Craft, but differently?

Just throwing this out there, but according to my GL constitution, this would just be different. It would be unlawfully. *Im certain this comment will generate some convo* lol


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[coachn]

Just throwing this out there, but according to my GL constitution, this would just be different. It would be unlawfully. *Im certain this comment will generate some convo* lol

Although the terms used denote "unlawefulness", a more accurate term would be "not in accordance with our rules". There is a huge difference.

 

[Brother JC]

My obligation says I won't be present at a degree or sit in lodge with them, and even parts of that are subjective based on the definition of "clandestine."
What my obligation does NOT say is that I will vilify them, degrade them, or publicly denounce them. It does not say I cannot do business with them, be friends with them, date them, or work with them.

 

[Warrior1256]

Freemasons are masters of civility aren't we? I would expect nothing less. lol

We are.

My Freemasonic Brothers though are often a mixed bag of nuts when it comes to civility.

Also true.

 

[Warrior1256]

My obligation says I won't be present at a degree or sit in lodge with them

True.

What my obligation does NOT say is that I will vilify them, degrade them, or publicly denounce them. It does not say I cannot do business with them, be friends with them, date them, or work with them.

Also true. I just don't "recognize" them.

 

[Bloke]

As Masons we are expected to be tolerant of those who worship the same Deity, but differently, and who vote for the same office, but differently. How is it that this tolerance does not extend to those who practice the same gentle Craft, but differently?

I like this and agree. I often draw a parallel between Christianity and Freemasonry. Just as Christianity is a broad label incorporating many groups like Methodists, Anglicans, Baptists and Catholics etc etc with diverse practices and beliefs, they all still sit under the umbrella of Christianity with beliefs common to all. Such is it with Freemasonry, we have groups like AF&AM of men only, others of woman only, others that are mixed all sharing a common heritage and common beliefs... If Karen Kidd believes in many of the things I do and works hard to keep her group going sharing in many of the struggles in do, while I will not admit her to my lodge ( interestingly many co-masons groups will recognise and admit a AF&AM (and F&AM) and will not sit in hers, I can see enough in common and respect her to call her Bro if she wants... indeed, anyone who's nice I'll call bro for as bupton52 said, are we all not in the same journey and often vale of tears ?

Regularity is not really what I had in mind when I posted the phrase "What you permit, you promote".. I was thinking more about wider morality and ethics, but the conversation is interesting...nice to see you bupton52, I don't think we've run into each other much...

 

[bupton52]

I like this and agree. I often draw a parallel between Christianity and Freemasonry. Just as Christianity is a broad label incorporating many groups like Methodists, Anglicans, Baptists and Catholics etc etc with diverse practices and beliefs, they all still sit under the umbrella of Christianity with beliefs common to all. Such is it with Freemasonry, we have groups like AF&AM of men only, others of woman only, others that are mixed all sharing a common heritage and common beliefs... If Karen Kidd believes in many of the things I do and works hard to keep her group going sharing in many of the struggles in do, while I will not admit her to my lodge ( interestingly many co-masons groups will recognise and admit a AF&AM (and F&AM) and will not sit in hers, I can see enough in common and respect her to call her Bro if she wants... indeed, anyone who's nice I'll call bro for as bupton52 said, are we all not in the same journey and often vale of tears ?

Regularity is not really what I had in mind when I posted the phrase "What you permit, you promote".. I was thinking more about wider morality and ethics, but the conversation is interesting...nice to see you bupton52, I don't think we've run into each other much...

It's a pleasure to meet you as well. I've been on a bit of a hiatus from many Masonic forums. Just easing my way back in for a bit.


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[Brother JC]

@Bloke My thinking, too, nearly verbatim.

 

[Bloke]

It's a pleasure to meet you as well. I've been on a bit of a hiatus from many Masonic forums. Just easing my way back in for a bit.


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My first ones are gone T3P then TSS, glad I found this place..

 

[Bloke]

@Bloke My thinking, too, nearly verbatim.

I often thing it would be better us us another analogy other than a religion, like ball sports; baseball, versus football, vrs soccer vrs basket ball... but it just does not seem to work as well..

 

[Brother JC]

I often thing it would be better us us another analogy other than a religion, like ball sports; baseball, versus football, vrs soccer vrs basket ball... but it just does not seem to work as well..

I like it as it encompasses one of our most fundamental teachings.