Would you support a National Grand Lodge?

[coachn]

Hey look!
A newcomer, let’s alienate them.
A fun little stereotypical microcosm of masonry itself really.

I disagree.

Most all who come to this forum fit in very well. They don't whine - assume - project - accuse - complain. They take the time to learn & ask questions, ask more questions when what they ask has unexpected responses and contribute well to the harmony and light this forum thrives upon.

Every once in a while someone shows up and portrays all the graces of bull elephants in musth.

Talking things out most of these times works and brings these characters into both harmony and contribution.

However, occasionally we run into squeaky wheels who can't hear anyone over the sound of their own squeal! That's when forum lubricant needs to be applied liberally and bluntly.

Did you even read the whole thread? The OP chose to focus on one person's replies and how they felt they were insulting. While there were three pages of Brothers trying to actually discuss the topic he began as well as providing useful advice. This one is on him.

I agree!

 

[CLewey44]

That's when forum lubricant need to be applied liberally and bluntly.

This line is cracking me up for so many reasons....

 

[LK600]

Hey look!
A newcomer, let’s alienate them.
A fun little stereotypical microcosm of masonry itself really.

Multiple pages with multiple posts (on the conflict) and not a single one did he even consider as valuable (except his own). There's a word for that. In my experience things tend to not go well when someone starts using words like demand and allow (let alone name calling).

 

[dfreybur]

Honestly, I’m done.

Unfortunately so am I. You make it personal and ignore the topic. Adding you to my ignore list.

 

[dfreybur]

I always get concerned when I hear of one or more GLs withdrawing recognition from another. Where does it end?

Unfortunately it's the only tool that GLs have to force discipline on other GLs. Of course this is probably the single best point there is in favor of a national GL that could force discipline. The issue of a national GL has far more points to the negative, but it definitely does have some points to the positive.

 

[coachn]

This line is cracking me up for so many reasons....

 

[Rifleman1776]

Yes, absolutely would support. If there was a central U.S. Grand Lodge we might have been able to avoid the mess created by a few bone heads here in Arkansas. For decades Masonic law was misinterpreted and unfairly used to punish people who did nothing to deserve such punishments. We need a centralized, standardized set of Masonic laws for all of America.

 

[Warrior1256]

The issue of a national GL has far more points to the negative, but it definitely does have some points to the positive.

Agreed.

Yes, absolutely would support. If there was a central U.S. Grand Lodge we might have been able to avoid the mess created by a few bone heads here in Arkansas. For decades Masonic law was misinterpreted and unfairly used to punish people who did nothing to deserve such punishments. We need a centralized, standardized set of Masonic laws for all of America.

From what I have read I can certainly understand why you feel this way considering what you Brothers in Arkansas have been put through for a number of years.

 

[coachn]

Yes, absolutely would support. If there was a central U.S. Grand Lodge we might have been able to avoid the mess created by a few bone heads here in Arkansas. For decades Masonic law was misinterpreted and unfairly used to punish people who did nothing to deserve such punishments. We need a centralized, standardized set of Masonic laws for all of America.

The challenge is avoiding the Peter Principle by elevating those very same boneheads into national power.

Better to have other GL negate and dismiss the unwarranted damage of another GL toward its members by considering a GLs unwarranted unfair actions and enabling membership to those who were unfairly treated. This done to the approval of at least two other GLs when such actions are warranted.

 

[Winter]

Yes, absolutely would support. If there was a central U.S. Grand Lodge we might have been able to avoid the mess created by a few bone heads here in Arkansas. For decades Masonic law was misinterpreted and unfairly used to punish people who did nothing to deserve such punishments. We need a centralized, standardized set of Masonic laws for all of America.

Firstly, I can think of no endeavor, Masonic or otherwise, which benefits from adding even more layers of bureaucracy to it. But more importantly, what if the ridiculous goings on in the GL of Arkansas were to happen on a national scale? The same Brothers in power there who have been abusing their power and behaving in a generally reprehensible manner are likely the same pool that would vie for power in a national grand lodge. A decentralized system of Masonic government means that surrounding grand lodges can bring sanctions to bear on a rogue jurisdiction that is conducting itself in a manner that is not in keeping with our values.

 

[David612]

Did you even read the whole thread? The OP chose to focus on one person's replies and how they felt they were insulting. While there were three pages of Brothers trying to actually discuss the topic he began as well as providing useful advice. This one is on him.

I didn’t say you lot are wrong-
It’s a very specific type that fits in here and I thought it would end in tears when he called coach a Jerk-
Still it may have been just a bad start based on the misunderstanding that he was advocating for a united grand lodge of ‘Murca, assuming his credentials Masonic check out I personally would have preferred to see the whole thing dropped as no one has gained from this.

 

[Glen Cook]

Firstly, I can think of no endeavor, Masonic or otherwise, which benefits from adding even more layers of bureaucracy to it. But more importantly, what if the ridiculous goings on in the GL of Arkansas were to happen on a national scale? The same Brothers in power there who have been abusing their power and behaving in a generally reprehensible manner are likely the same pool that would vie for power in a national grand lodge. A decentralized system of Masonic government means that surrounding grand lodges can bring sanctions to bear on a rogue jurisdiction that is conducting itself in a manner that is not in keeping with our values.

And seeing the errors perpetuated on a national scale is one of my concerns, having already seen it in appendant bodies.

 

[David612]

Imagine the cash injection from moving on all those GL buildings, some redundant paid staff and other odds and ends-
It financially could be beneficial but for the craft overall I think it would be a big ol flop.

 

[Glen Cook]

Imagine the cash injection from moving on all those GL buildings, some redundant paid staff and other odds and ends-
It financially could be beneficial but for the craft overall I think it would be a big ol flop.

I suspect they would simply become provincial GL buildings and all the staff would remain.

 

[David612]

I suspect they would simply become provincial GL buildings and all the staff would remain.

I suspect you would be right.
Good thing we have all that spare cash.

 

[LK600]

Still it may have been just a bad start based on the misunderstanding

I suspect that is exactly what took place.

I personally would have preferred to see the whole thing dropped as no one has gained from this.

Granted. Whats the saying... The road to Hell is paved with good intentions?

 

[coachn]

I suspect you would be right.
Good thing we have all that spare cash.

Not to mention all that treasure we've been hoarding and passing down from one generation to the next.

 

[Glen Cook]

Not to mention all that treasure we've been hoarding and passing down from one generation to the next.

Shush now. If everyone knows we have money, then we can’t spend endless time frittering away our lives on inconsequences instead of practicing Freemasonry.

 

[Brother JC]

And UGLE.

Bwahaha! Even more convoluted!

 

[Rifleman1776]

Firstly, I can think of no endeavor, Masonic or otherwise, which benefits from adding even more layers of bureaucracy to it. But more importantly, what if the ridiculous goings on in the GL of Arkansas were to happen on a national scale? The same Brothers in power there who have been abusing their power and behaving in a generally reprehensible manner are likely the same pool that would vie for power in a national grand lodge. A decentralized system of Masonic government means that surrounding grand lodges can bring sanctions to bear on a rogue jurisdiction that is conducting itself in a manner that is not in keeping with our values.

Winter, I understand your reasoning and appreciate your courteous and well thought out reply. However, the situation in Arkansas is unique. We are a small state, population wise. The power mongers in Masonry, as I understand it, all live in or near Little Rock and see each other in person frequently. From my home, near the Missouri border, it is a 3 1/2 hour drive to GL. Not likely, I, and many others near state lines, are going to meet for coffee on a daily basis with the close-minded central bunch. A U.S. GL would have a more geographically diverse bunch and such influences as we have in Arkansas would be highly unlikely. BTW, tonight my Lodge in Missouri (Robert Burns 496) will be hosting the Missouri WGM, the Arkansas WGM and the WGM of Missouri Prince Hall. It will be an historic gathering, especially notable since our Lodge is small and rural. It is my understanding the current Arkansas WGM is attempting to heal the hurts caused in recent years over the rift with Shrine. I look forward to meeting him and hope he speaks to this issue.