Awkward

[hanzosbm]

Ever had an acquaintance express interest in the craft/ask for a petition but you didn't feel they were worthy? How did you handle it?

 

[coachn]

I tell him to contact a local lodge and enquire with the secretary. The tough part is when he asks to have you sign the petition or act as a reference.

 

[crono782]

Depends on the reason. I believe every man can work his rough ashlar towards the perfect, although sometimes they still won't pass the West gate. I tell everyone who inquires that we hold a certain standard of character for being considered and let them internalize that thought and decide if they are worthy.

 

[hanzosbm]

Just to be clear, this isn't about a single individual, but rather a few I've known over time.

My brother one time asked me why I never asked him to join. I explained that we have certain rules and one of them was that we could not invite people to join. He scoffed and said "I'd never follow rules like that. So what do I have to do to join?".
My cousin likewise has expressed numerous times that he doesn't believe in following rules or allowing someone else to tell him what to do (which is why he can't keep a job). When I told him he'd have to learn to follow our rules if he wanted to join he said "we'll see about that".

In all of these cases, I've just answered their questions and generally avoided actually getting them a petition which is good because I don't know how I'd handle it. On the one hand, I could always sign it and then anonymously vote against them, but that is rather dishonest. On the other hand, I could tell them no and risk hurting their feelings. Like I said, I've been fortunate thus far, but I thought it might make for an interesting topic of conversation.

 

[MarkR]

What you described would be easy for me. If they told me that they would have no intention of trying to follow Masonic rules, I'd reply "well, then, I guess you can't be a Mason." I have told that to one young man who told me he could never call a Jew his brother.

 

[GKA]

Ever had an acquaintance express interest in the craft/ask for a petition but you didn't feel they were worthy? How did you handle it?

I discuss Masonry with him until I find a road block, like he's an Atheist or whatever, then i explain why that road block prevents him from becoming a Mason, if I don't find a road block, then I cannot in clear conscience deny his attempt to join.

 

[Bill Lins]

I would consider their refusal to follow our rules a MAJOR roadblock.

 

[GKA]

I would consider their refusal to follow our rules a MAJOR roadblock.

I totally agree

 

[GKA]

While you are certainly entirled to your opinion brother, I would remind you that your position is not in keeping with Masonic purpose

 

[Glen Cook]

I discuss Masonry with him until I find a road block, like he's an Atheist or whatever, then i explain why that road block prevents him from becoming a Mason, if I don't find a road block, then I cannot in clear conscience deny his attempt to join.

So, what if you know he is just a very difficult individual who would sow dissension in the lodge?

 

[Bill Lins]

While you are certainly entirled to your opinion brother, I would remind you that your position is not in keeping with Masonic purpose

To whom are you referring?

 

[Bill Lins]

So, what if you know he is just a very difficult individual who would sow dissension in the lodge?

As it is up to all of us to keep and promote peace and harmony in our Lodges, I think I would suggest to him that he would fit in better in some other organization. In addition to the "standard" qualifications, I take into consideration whether a candidate would be an asset, both to my Lodge and to Masonry overall. If I feel that a petitioner would not be such, I will not recommend him.

 

[GKA]

To whom are you referring?

I was replying to a post made by JJones which seems to have been removed

 

[GKA]

So, what if you know he is just a very difficult individual who would sow dissension in the lodge?

I think it is difficult to know exactly that anyone would sow dissension and still not be able to find a solid point with which to dismiss his candidacy.
as the guardians of our order, we have a serious responsibility to filter out those individuals whom are unworthy, on this point we both agree. however I for one do not want to be the person who prevented another from obtaining the light they seek just because we two did not have agreeable personalities

 

[JJones]

I was replying to a post made by JJones which seems to have been removed

I deleted it immediately after as I didn't feel I worded it in the best way. Bill_Lins said almost the same thing much more elegantly than I.

I think it is difficult to know exactly that anyone would sow dissension and still not be able to find a solid point with which to dismiss his candidacy.
as the guardians of our order, we have a serious responsibility to filter out those individuals whom are unworthy, on this point we both agree. however I for one do not want to be the person who prevented another from obtaining the light they seek just because we two did not have agreeable personalities

It may not be an issue in larger lodges but I'm from a more rural area so my experiences are limited with smaller lodges. It only takes one bad apple to spoil the whole bunch and some personalities are just toxic, regardless of how much light they seek. Other personalities aren't so bad but if they might conflict with already existing members of the lodge then my opinion is they should find light elsewhere.

 

[GKA]

I deleted it immediately after as I didn't feel I worded it in the best way. Bill_Lins said almost the same thing much more elegantly than I.



It may not be an issue in larger lodges but I'm from a more rural area so my experiences are limited with smaller lodges. It only takes one bad apple to spoil the whole bunch and some personalities are just toxic, regardless of how much light they seek. Other personalities aren't so bad but if they might conflict with already existing members of the lodge then my opinion is they should find light elsewhere.

I support your right to have the lodge that you desire

 

[Glen Cook]

I think it is difficult to know exactly that anyone would sow dissension and still not be able to find a solid point with which to dismiss his candidacy.
as the guardians of our order, we have a serious responsibility to filter out those individuals whom are unworthy, on this point we both agree. however I for one do not want to be the person who prevented another from obtaining the light they seek just because we two did not have agreeable personalities

The issue wasn't whether our two personalities disagreed. I would not cast a negative vote on that basis.

 

[hanzosbm]

The issue wasn't whether our two personalities disagreed. I would not cast a negative vote on that basis.

I agree. Two non compatible personalities wouldn't be a reason to deny (in my opinion) but if their personality was such that it caused problems throughout, that's a different story.
We admit worthy men, not all men. I forget who said it, but I recall something about it being better to deny 10 good men than admit 1 bad one.

 

[GKA]

I agree. Two non compatible personalities wouldn't be a reason to deny (in my opinion) but if their personality was such that it caused problems throughout, that's a different story.
We admit worthy men, not all men. I forget who said it, but I recall something about it being better to deny 10 good men than admit 1 bad one.

Please clarify, is your statement parallel to condemning ten innocent men rather than risk setting one guilty man free?

 

[hanzosbm]

Please clarify, is your statement parallel to condemning ten innocent men rather than risk setting one guilty man free?

No, it's not.