Awkward

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by hanzosbm, Jul 28, 2015.

  1. hanzosbm

    hanzosbm Premium Member

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    No, it's not.
     
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  2. GKA

    GKA Premium Member

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    So to deny a man a house on Earth is not the same thing as to deny him one eternal in the Heavens.
     
  3. hanzosbm

    hanzosbm Premium Member

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    Neither of those are my place to decide.

    I am talking about the institution of Freemasonry, which is not a right, but a privilege.

    "...and admits to it's privileges worthy men..."

    The members of the lodge repeatedly put forth the question of whether he is worthy. Not all men are. Freemasonry is a science of degrees with it being necessary to understand an inculcate each before proceeding to the next. That does not however mean that this progression begins at the door of the lodge. Rather, it begins the day we are born (or perhaps sooner). If a man has done a poor job to prepare himself thus far, I see no reason why he is to be passed on.
     
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  4. GKA

    GKA Premium Member

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    I can agree with your position however, as I see it, there are two distinct criteria wherein a man may be rejected, or accepted in the case of being made a Mason on site,
    The specific conditions such being a Felon etc. And the input or recommendation of a brother.
    This places a large responsibility upon us and the decision to recommend or reject must not be taken lightly
    How much better would the world be if we could exhibit the same tolerance to non Masons as we ought to our
    brothers
    ( yea, I know I'm gonna receive flack for this)
     
  5. Cigarzan

    Cigarzan Premium Member

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    As often as rules, regulations, and policies change (and landmarks, ahem) I couldn't care less who joins the lodge. I'm out now. Hell, a lodge in Fort Worth initiated a blind guy. He, of course, immediately went through the chairs and is now a past master. Nothing means anything anymore. Adios!
     
  6. GKA

    GKA Premium Member

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    Here is an example to make my point;
    If there were a vote on this forum right now about my own candidacy for Masonry, there us no doubt in my mind that I would be rejected
    However, if that vote were taken at my home lodge, the outcome would be different
     
  7. JJones

    JJones Moderator Staff Member

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    That's quite a leap in comparison, is it not?
     
  8. GKA

    GKA Premium Member

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    Yes but again there is a point to it
    We have made Members at our lodge who if rejected would have not continued their pursuit due to age and opportunity
    Sometimes we must acknowledge that we may be that mans last hope
     
  9. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    No, as I do not equate lodge with salvation and in my belief system, men do not decide the eternal question.
     
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  10. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    People often behave differently when not hiding behind the cloak of Internet anonymity.
     
  11. hanzosbm

    hanzosbm Premium Member

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    I'm sorry if this comes off as cold or callous, but if he has failed up to this point to properly prepare himself, I see no reason, regardless of what his last hope may be, that I should endanger the Craft for his sake. Him facing the consequences of his (in)actions has absolutely no bearing on my determination as to whether or not he is worthy. From the standpoint of character, every man has the exact same opportunities in life. If he has squandered those opportunities, I see no need to reward his lack of preparation by advancing him regardless of whether or not he is out of time.
     
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  12. JJones

    JJones Moderator Staff Member

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    Agreed. We are supposed to take good men and make them better, it's not our mission to rehabilitate men because we feel we're their last hope.

    Is helping people masonic? Absolutely, but that's the role of the individual, not the lodge.
     
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  13. GKA

    GKA Premium Member

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    He who shows compassion shall receive it
     
  14. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    The charges say to never recommend a man unless we think that he will reflect well upon Masonry. Fortunately I don't remember any such men petitioning in the first place. The ideal state to filter out such a man is in his own head when he fails to ask for a petition in the first place.
     
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  15. GKA

    GKA Premium Member

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    We can never know the challenges another must face, to deny a person on the basis of worthiness is judgmental to the extreme
    How many times in our lives have we turned into a freind only after getting to know someone ?
     
  16. hanzosbm

    hanzosbm Premium Member

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    We swear an oath to deny a person based on their worthiness.
     
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  17. GKA

    GKA Premium Member

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    Point of confusion on my part, sorry
    I should have selected a less specific word
    I think that we have a responsibility to pass every person who desires to become a Mason regardless of how much light he may receive or how much time he has left to receive it
    The rules for denial, to me are specific
    I have never denied a candidate except on very specific points
    If you feel or think him unworthy, does it not seem even more important that you strive to discover the specifics of why he is unworthy?
     
  18. hanzosbm

    hanzosbm Premium Member

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    Charity and the relief of those in dire and destitute circumstances are wonderful aspirations and virtues that I always try to uphold. But that doesn't go as far as making a man a Mason.
    Let me try this a different way. Would you pass a brother could not make suitable proficiency and who had not properly prepared himself simply because he desired it?
     
  19. GKA

    GKA Premium Member

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    I would not, but that's a different situation, we are taught that we must make the effort to gain light, that is why even a candidate must seek out Masonry and ask to join.
     
  20. hanzosbm

    hanzosbm Premium Member

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    Just because he asks does not mean he should be accepted. There is a reason that we ask ourselves if he is worthy and well qualified as well as take a vote. If simply seeking the Light was enough, neither of these would be necessary.
     

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