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Greetings from an "irregular"

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
Dear all,......,..

PS:
There was a Br:. who commented on the GOdF and blamed it for interfering with French politics. Why do you see the straw in the others eye and do no see the beam in yours? I don`t think that a F:.M:. from the USA can criticize any other masonic body for interfering in politics, as the Masonic interference in American politics was the most pregnant in history. You even had an Anti-Masonic Party at some point for G-d`s sake...

The issue is organised Freemasonry intruding into politics. I would be interested in a citation as to where this has occurred in the US.

The anti-Masonic party was not Freemasonry as an organisation involved in politics. To the contrary, Freemasonry was the victim.

Note, many of us have taken obligations and instruction regarding the use of the name of Deity. Please be sensitive to that.
 

David612

Registered User
Note, many of us have taken obligations and instruction regarding the use of the name of Deity. Please be sensitive to that.

It sounds like the people who have taken the obligation need to be sensitive to the use of the name of deity.
Those that haven’t can do what they want as it isn’t their obligation.
 

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
It sounds like the people who have taken the obligation need to be sensitive to the use of the name of deity.
Those that haven’t can do what they want as it isn’t their obligation.
Oh, it wasn’t an expectation of him fulfilling an obligation he hadn’t taken, but simply a request for respect for the sensitivities of others.
 

wufilas

Registered User
Maybe you can answer this, was Mustapha Kemal Ataturk a member of the Grand Orient de France in the country of Macedonia?

I am sorry but I don`t know for sure. It is said that he was a Br:. in a F:.M:. R:.L:. that belonged to the GOdF from Thessaloniki, present day Greece. Did not do any specific research on this subject so I cannot tell. But if I remember correctly, Irène Mainguy wrote something on this subject (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irène_Mainguy) who is the Head of the Library of the Grand Orient de France (which is quite an extensive library). She is the author of numerous books on Freemasonry History and Ritual. I am sure she is known to a lot of Br:. here.

The issue is organised Freemasonry intruding into politics. I would be interested in a citation as to where this has occurred in the US.

The anti-Masonic party was not Freemasonry as an organisation involved in politics. To the contrary, Freemasonry was the victim.

Note, many of us have taken obligations and instruction regarding the use of the name of Deity. Please be sensitive to that.

I regret if I offended anyone. As stated by the others, I do not have the same Obligations. Leaving F:.M:. aside, if you are all mostly Christian, neither do you (Mark 10:17-31). Jesus did not leave out four commandments because he simply forgot about them...

Still, I was using my last statement as a figure of speech which is commonly used in anglo-saxon countries, not with the intention to take G-d's name in vain. If it offends, I will abstain from using it.

We are thought to be tolerant to others, regarding their beliefs. I am talking about beliefs now, not about clericalism. I do admit that the GOdF was always a bit anticlerical. But as we all know, faith and religion are two different things. And as we all know, at least in Continental Europe, the Catholic Church has always had it's fingers in the political honey pot. So the anticlericalism of the GOdF is understandable.

I am sure most of you have heard about the R:.L:. Liberté Chérie. It was one of the very few R:.L:. of which the lights were ignited inside a concentration camp in Nazi Germany. It was founded by seven brothers from the Grand Orient of Belgium. As a side note, I have a personal project on which I work (to my shame not so much in the last months) through which I would wish to gather enough info to write a book on F:.M:. inside concentration camps.... Liberté Chérie was not the only one, but the most well known.
Well, in this R:.L:., while our Br:. were having their meetings, guess who was keeping watch so that SS guards don`t catch them? Catholic priests which were also inmates due to their beliefs (or because of their appurtenance to the anti-German resistance). The favor was returned by our Br:. They were also keeping watch while the priests held their Mass .... For me this is a beautiful story of mutual respect and tolerance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberté_chérie
 

David612

Registered User
Even when politely explained? I endeavour to do so, and I should hope most who identify as Masons would do so.
I’m sorry but your religious preference isn’t relevant in an open Masonic forum-
If this was a church forum sure but it’s inappropriate for people if various faiths to start applying rules o those who don’t profess to be of that faith.

Out of curiosity why is there no issue with the line “In God we trust” being printed on currency?
 

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
I’m sorry but your religious preference isn’t relevant in an open Masonic forum-
If this was a church forum sure but it’s inappropriate for people if various faiths to start applying rules o those who don’t profess to be of that faith.

Out of curiosity why is there no issue with the line “In God we trust” being printed on currency?
I would invite your attention to my first post which referenced Masonic, and not religious preference. However, I would certainly hope those who identify as Masons would be sensitive to others’ religious beliefs.

Again, no one is applying a rule. It was a polite request, to which the individual kindly acceded.

I hadn’t referenced the dollar bill motto. In any case, it’s used as a motto, and not an expletive.
 
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David612

Registered User
I would invite your attention to my first post which referenced Masonic, and not religious preference. However, I would certainly hope those who identify as Masons would be sensitive to others religious beliefs.

Again, no one is applying a rule. It was a polite request, to which the individual kindly acceded.

I hadn’t referenced the dollar bill motto. In any case, it’s used as a motto, and not an expletive.
What I’m saying is that it is inappropriate for you or anyone to request that others modify their behaviour to align with your religious preferences in a Masonic context.
I hope that those who identify as masons wouldn’t push their religious preferences onto others when in a Masonic arena as it isn’t appropriate.
In regards to the currency question-
I asked it... because I’m curious if your mint gets mail asking if they could please amend the currency in the name of common courtesy.
 
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Winter

Premium Member
What I’m saying is that it is inappropriate for you or anyone to request that others modify their behaviour to align with your religious preferences in a Masonic context.
I hope that those who identify as masons wouldn’t push their religious preferences onto others when in a Masonic arena as it isn’t appropriate.
In regards to the currency question-
I asked it... because I’m curious if your mint gets mail asking if they could please amend the currency in the name of common courtesy.

Nobody is requiring or demanding anyone to modify their behavior. If you travel to a foreign country, wouldn't you consider it polite to refrain from behavior that may offend the residents there even if it those actions or words are perfectly acceptable in your own country? With Brothers from so many different backgrounds here, wouldn't it also be considered polite and courteous to refrain from posts that may offend some Brothers, regardless of Ob's? It just seems Brotherly to want to behave that way. It shouldn't need to be mandated.

As for the currency issue that contains the motto, "In God We Trust", it only dates to 1956 when the US sought to distinguish ourselves from the atheist communists in Soviet Russia during the Cold War. And it has received several legal challenges citing the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. But it has been upheld under the Doctrine of Accommodationism. Personally, I could care less since I carry cash exactly once a month because my barber only accepts cash. :)
 

David612

Registered User
Nobody is requiring or demanding anyone to modify their behavior. If you travel to a foreign country, wouldn't you consider it polite to refrain from behavior that may offend the residents there even if it those actions or words are perfectly acceptable in your own country? With Brothers from so many different backgrounds here, wouldn't it also be considered polite and courteous to refrain from posts that may offend some Brothers, regardless of Ob's? It just seems Brotherly to want to behave that way. It shouldn't need to be mandated.

As for the currency issue that contains the motto, "In God We Trust", it only dates to 1956 when the US sought to distinguish ourselves from the atheist communists in Soviet Russia during the Cold War. And it has received several legal challenges citing the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. But it has been upheld under the Doctrine of Accommodationism. Personally, I could care less since I carry cash exactly once a month because my barber only accepts cash. :)
That’s exactly what I’m saying-




But my barber takes cards.
 

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
What I’m saying is that it is inappropriate for you or anyone to request that others modify their behaviour to align with your religious preferences in a Masonic context.
I hope that those who identify as masons wouldn’t push their religious preferences onto others when in a Masonic arena as it isn’t appropriate.
In regards to the currency question-
I asked it... because I’m curious if your mint gets mail asking if they could please amend the currency in the name of common courtesy.
Let me try again: it isn’t a religious issue. Avoiding casual use of the name of Deity is a common masonic requirement in Preston Webb, AASR SJ and Rectified Rite.
Yes, the mint does get such mail and even litigation, as referenced byBr Winter

I think our points are made now and it’s late ( and hot) here in Panama.
 
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