My Freemasonry | Freemason Information and Discussion Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

A small quiz about mistakes and inconsistencies in the Legend of the Craft

SimonM

Registered User
But Heracles, Hera and Hermes are from Indo-European languages and Hiram and Horus are from the Afro-Asiatic family, they are not even closely related.
Even Hiram and Horus are in two very distant branches of the same family.

Do you have some reference of these names beeing related?
 

Ripcord22A

Site Benefactor
Sometimes i think that the woo woos, to take a line from @coachn, within our ranks are worse then the alex jones of the worlds.

When Mr Jones speaks his nonsense about freemasonry the general public knows hes just trying to get ratings for his shows, when @JamestheJust speaks his nonsense of freemasonry as a supposed member the general public will believe it.

Whether or not we borrowed names from other cultures, or adapated story lines doesnt chanfe the fact that every degree play from 1-32(i cant speak for 33 or the york rite or AMDs or Shrine or any other appendant body) are fabricated morality story plays. Sure, we borrowed from here or there but none of them are true. And we will never no why our founding brethern chose the names they did.
Its like a presentation i did in lodge a few months back on "Why we call it blue lodge" i was hoping to find that some GM some where a cpl hundred yrs ago called it that and said so because "xyz". That wasnt the case. There is nothing i could find as to why its called Blue Lodge. But there was alot on wjat the color blue meant to ever culture and civilization around the world. So..why is it called Blue Lodge? No friggen clue amd it would be irreaponsible and almost unmasonic of me to suggest otherwise....same with these other topics....no Brother should say why certain things are the way they are in regards to our ritual ceremonies, only why they THINK or what it means to that individual brother.

Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
EXACTLY! so u admit that Masonic Science is yet another alegory and doesnt actually exist?

Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app
<sigh> ...and while you're chasing these rabbits, you'd have to determine what Masonic Science actual was denoting in either the allegory or whatever. And while you're at it, you might engage in painstakingly determining whether the writer or speaker who used the term actually meant Masonic Science or was just loosely referring to Freemasonic Science and not Actual Masonic Science because they simply either didn't know any better OR they actually do believe that they are on in the same.
 

Ripcord22A

Site Benefactor
<sigh> ...and while you're chasing these rabbits, you'd have to determine what Masonic Science actual was denoting in either the allegory or whatever. And while you're at it, you might engage in painstakingly determining whether the writer or speaker who used the term actually meant Masonic Science or was just loosely referring to Freemasonic Science and not Actual Masonic Science because they simply either didn't know any better OR they actually do believe that they are on in the same.
Your right @coachn. I do mean freemasonic science, as masonic science would be the science that stonemasons use to do their work. I think we can be safe to assume on foums like here that when someone says mason they mean freemasons.

Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
It seems to me that building better men is the work of the EA. The FC is required to investigate the hidden mysteries of nature and science.
You've posted this before. You've missed the entire point of the three degree progression.

EA = Heart Work (Emotions) = Mastering The Self, preparing to learn
FC = Head Work (Intellect) = Mastering The Universe, learning how to learn
MM = Spirit Work = Mastering The Word, learning and teaching

All THREE better men, when their Work is done. However, experiencing their ritual as nausea shall not do the job and may actually hold you back.

Success in the work of the FC logically is the precondition for the discovery and practice of Masonic Science.

Discovery, no. It is already discovered.

Practice, yes, but only in the respect that it trains the mind to recognize and use patterns.

I have hardly ever seen a brother attempt the work of the FC.

Hang with my Engineering homies and you'll see far more.

As a result few brethren discover Masonic Science - with the honorable exception of some Fraters of the SRIA.

LOL! You would do well to expand your circle.
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
No science is not allegory for experiment. Im saying that the word science is the allegory. Freemasonic "science" is to me the building of better men

The modern version of the capitalized Scientific Method was codified starting in the generation of Galileo and ending in the generation after Newton. The meaning of the word "science" was in flux until about 1750ish. This timing matches well with the publication of Masonic ritual in the decades between 1717 and 1750.

The word science in our ritual is not capitalized and doesn't quite mean what we mean by the capitalized Science now. It's more general. Less subject to numerical analysis and experiment. It was more what had been learned over the ages and less a statistical analysis of methods and results.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
Quite so. That avoids having to explain the science.
or it better defines the focus because the word "science" simply was an extremely poor word choice with which to begin.
 
R

Ressam

Guest
Mr.James,
may be it's better to say:
Freemasonry is the Organization(Brotherhood), where Members are studyin' The Science of Morality?
 

Luigi Visentin

Registered User
The word "Science" comes from Latin "scientia" which means "knowledge". Before establishment of the scientific method which characterizes the modern "science" it was used only with the meaning above. However this meaning, as far as I know, is still valid also in case you are considering the modern scientific method as this method is used to have a "knowledge" of the nature. This is likely the reason why it is still in use (a philosopher of science can be much more precise than me). Therefore I do not think that it is a mistake to use the term "Masonic Science".

However a step above ancient "Science" was "Art" and Masonry has always been defined primary as an "Art". To make a simple example, if basketball is a "Science" the one of Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant or Stephen Curry is an "Art". The reference of ancient Masonic Art in the Liberal Arts was "Geometry" an Art of the Quadrivium, nothing to do with the "Word" which is a matter of the Trivium (Grammar, Logic and Rhetoric). In this definition the Legend of the Craft is very clear even acknowledging the importance of all the Liberal Arts.

About the Ancient Masonic Art I think that it is still well alive but not practiced in Masonic Lodges even if they goes on mantaining many of its traditional elements. The reason is that from about the end of seventeen century (the date is only alleged because it stays between Ashmole and the 1717) some of our ancient Brothers decided to overlap the ancient teachings with others based mainly on "Christian Cabbala" and other traditions (and this has caused a lot of confusion in the search of the origin of Masonry). As an interesting reading I suggest "De armonia mundi totius" (1525) of Francesco Giorzi or Zorzi, an Italian franciscan friar very popular in Tudor and in the Elizabethan age in England and in whole Europe. In this work there is a good introduction and guide to the concepts related to the design and construction of sacred buildings, and it speaks extensively about the G.A.O.T.U. and the sacred Geometry.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
A well known science and art is Alchemy...
It is not well-known as either.
...and that was practiced by some brethren pre-1717.
There is no proof whatsoever that brethren of the Society of Free & Accepted Masons practiced Alchemy prior to 1717.
Isaac Newton wrote more about alchemy than he did about mathematics.
He was not a brethren.
 
Top