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Christianity and Homosexuality

TCShelton

Founding Member
Premium Member
I do know, according to the bible, Jesus was quoted more times condemning a man judging another man than there are quotes condeming a man having sex with a man, if he is quoted condemning it at all.

Which leads me to another question: How does Christ tell us we can't judge another man, while Masonry makes this action a requirement?
 

rhitland

Founding Member
Premium Member
I do know, according to the bible, Jesus was quoted more times condemning a man judging another man than there are quotes condeming a man having sex with a man, if he is quoted condemning it at all.

Which leads me to another question: How does Christ tell us we can't judge another man, while Masonry makes this action a requirement?

Now look at what ya'll have done you have Brother Tom preaching to us.. ! :wink:

I propose this is another level of judgment than Christ was talking about. Jesus is referring to the deepest level of judgment that of ones own superiority over another but we as Masons judge for safety and practical purposes not b/c we feel we are above anyone. Masonry recognize men are on different planes of learning and this frat would be useless for men not ready for it's teachings thus the "judgement" processes only serves them and our members.

Maybe we need to start this as a new thread pretty interesting question.
 

TCShelton

Founding Member
Premium Member
Now look at what ya'll have done you have Brother Tom preaching to us.. ! :wink:

I propose this is another level of judgment than Christ was talking about. Jesus is referring to the deepest level of judgment that of ones own superiority over another but we as Masons judge for safety and practical purposes not b/c we feel we are above anyone.

Is it not the same, or maybe a few rungs further down the same ladder?

To determine that a man is not fit to be made a Mason while me and you are, is in effect, saying that we are in some way superior to him.

What exactly do you mean by "safety and practical purposes?"

John 8:7 clearly states "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." I believe that this statement speaks of judgement on pretty much any level, although in this instance, it was in response to the Pharisees who were about to stone a woman for adultery, not in response to a question on who was going to hell. With that in mind, what are we judging potential members on, and biblically, do we have that right? Their morality? As some on here have stated, their homosexuality? Their criminal record? Their financial irresponsiblities? What criteria do we judge? What gives us the right, other than our charge, to do this?
 

TCShelton

Founding Member
Premium Member
To me, this thread is one of the major problems with man's influence on religion. IMO, Christ was pretty clear that his word was to be used as a tool for self improvement, to be seen as an example to follow for mankind to redeem himself for his sins, and come closer to reunification with god.

As man does, he takes Christ's word and uses it as a weapon of condemnation, power, and superiority.

All of a sudden, Jesus doesn't teach love, tolerance, and acceptance, he now teaches hate, disgust, and intolerance.

"Jesus wept."
 

rhitland

Founding Member
Premium Member
Is it not the same, or maybe a few rungs further down the same ladder?

To determine that a man is not fit to be made a Mason while me and you are, is in effect, saying that we are in some way superior to him.

What exactly do you mean by "safety and practical purposes?"

John 8:7 clearly states "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." I believe that this statement speaks of judgement on pretty much any level, although in this instance, it was in response to the Pharisees who were about to stone a woman for adultery, not in response to a question on who was going to hell. With that in mind, what are we judging potential members on, and biblically, do we have that right? Their morality? As some on here have stated, their homosexuality? Their criminal record? Their financial irresponsiblities? What criteria do we judge? What gives us the right, other than our charge, to do this?

Yes judgment is the same but as you said further down the ladder. We all know some people are just evil and will do bad things just to do them. Are you better than them because you do good things or would you even have good things to do if bad things never happened? My point is we are not making judgments on a level that will effect either party in a negative way it is a judgment processes that is benifical for both parties the man ready and the man not ready neither being better than the other just in different planes of learning. Kinda like me going to Lester's Physics classes with my 10th grade algebra it would be a waste of mine and the prof.'s time so he would stop me with the judgment of I was not ready for that class but he is still no better than me neither is he making the assumption he is by that judgement. So we are not saying we are superior just this is the wrong place and time for them.

As for safety and practical purposes. Safety: we cannot vote in violent criminals or characters that would derail the teaching system Masonry offers, which also plays into to the practical purposes. If we let every bad guy off the street in we would all spend time making bad guys better and Masonry was not designed for that in its nature. It is directed toward a more intellectual brain seeking spiritual enlightenment, where a criminal needs a whole other system to allow them to get better but again one soul is no better than the other and Masonry does not imply that.

Man is the problem as everyone has their own version of right and that just pisses some people off to enable themselves to commit unthinkable acts and carry wicked evil judgments of superiority.
 

RedTemplar

Johnny Joe Combs
Premium Member
If we cannot make judgments, how are we to teach our children, give good counsel to our brothers, or discern between good and evil?
 

TCShelton

Founding Member
Premium Member
If we cannot make judgments, how are we to teach our children, give good counsel to our brothers, or discern between good and evil?

I agree, but these aren't my rules. Jesus made them. Since we are in the habit of taking his words to tell others how they are wrong, this whole process seems highly hypocritical. I judge frequently, but then again, I am not in the habit of beating someone else's lifestyle over the head with the bible either.
 

TCShelton

Founding Member
Premium Member
Yes judgment is the same but as you said further down the ladder. We all know some people are just evil and will do bad things just to do them. Are you better than them because you do good things or would you even have good things to do if bad things never happened? My point is we are not making judgments on a level that will effect either party in a negative way it is a judgment processes that is benifical for both parties the man ready and the man not ready neither being better than the other just in different planes of learning.

Come now Bro. Rhit, are you trying to inject logic into a religious debate? Shame on you.. !

Taking the biblical stance here, I don't recall Jesus saying that judgement on this level is ok, but not on that one, or that just a little judgement is ok, etc. What I read is that he said NO JUDGEMENT. Looking at it like you are, could I assume that only a little homo love is ok with Jesus, as long as you don't go all the way?
 

Sirius

Registered User
The truth is: God's revelation to us ended when the last book of the New Testament was written.

How very sad that God does not reveal Himself to you. God reveals Himself to us everyday if we will only listen. Daily, I marvel at the beauty, strength, and wisdom of a awesome God that continues to reveal Light, further Light, and More Light.
 
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