Do you believe in Darwinian evolution?

Discussion in 'The Voting Booth' started by KO2134, Aug 27, 2013.

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Do you believe in Darwinian evolution?

  1. Yes

    46 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. No

    32 vote(s)
    34.8%
  3. Unsure

    7 vote(s)
    7.6%
  4. Need more information

    7 vote(s)
    7.6%
  1. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    Tachyon neutrinos might not have been all that shocking. Tachyons violation Einstein's general relativity but there are multiple competitors for GR. In special relativity a particle can't be accelerated past C but there's nothing to say it can't be created already past C. There are many cases were particles are created by a collision between two very high energy photons so C is already in play. In this sense it would be a puzzle similar to matter versus anti-matter - Why is there so much more matter than anti-matter in the universe? The particle version would become - Why are there so many more sub-C particles generated than tachyons?

    Confirming the observation would have overthrown Einstein's GR in favor of others.

    There's a joke among scientists -

    A - The data didn't come out according to theory. It's frustrating.

    B - There's theory and there's the universe. I betting on the universe not on the theory. Which one are you betting on?

    Doug's joke corollary -

    D - Given Einstein's track record I don't see a ton of down side betting on his version of GR over the competing ones. So far the universe seems to be on Einstein's side for anything not quantum. That's not even counting the fact that his Nobel Prize was in quantum mechanics ...
     
  2. ej6267

    ej6267 Registered User

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    Two things: I wish this thread had not used Darwin's name. Saying Darwin or "Darwinian" is akin to saying Freud or Freudian therapy-the science has progressed immeasurably in the last hundred and fifty years from when Darwin wrote, and the nature of the scientific method has corrected errors and filled in many blanks. The name alone has become a hot button issue.

    Second, I am noticing a tone of rancor that is entirely out of place in a discussion between brothers. Remember, to preserve the reputation of the fraternity unsullied must be our constant care, so please try to remember what that entails. Just my thoughts on the matter...
     
  3. cherrynobel

    cherrynobel Registered User

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    The science of evolution has changed a lot since Darwin many new species and ancient species detailing about the evolution of past and present species have come up still we have to keep in mind that just like the theory of evolution many have changed, the best example being of classical mechanics and quantum mechanics.
    Also to be noted is that the theory given by Darwin or some other old theories like of Dalton atom theory have influenced many new theories and are still thought in school's. But to completely agree with Darwin's theory in present time will not be suitable so I will say no to it.
     
  4. BroBook

    BroBook Premium Member

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    No , a monkey did not turn into a man if so we would not still have monkeys ! Would we?


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  5. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    With God, all things are possible.
     
  6. BroBook

    BroBook Premium Member

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    Yes sir , but the Most High God does miracles not magic!!! Primitive man was not walking upright because he was depressed from being kicked out of the garden!!!


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  7. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    That's not how evolution works. It does not require replacement. Who taught you such nonsense?
     
  8. BroBook

    BroBook Premium Member

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    What's this missing link thing and who mentioned replaced I thought ( comes from not knowing) the primary idea was that life as we know it is a random act and man used to be a monkey but anyway what are we/humans going to be when we stop being stupid!!! And noticed you said it works as if it is true whether I understand it or not. I ran into a book "Darwinism
    Under the microscope


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  9. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    First, I've run into books that attack all Christian beliefs, too. They make very tight, self-consistent cases. I've run into atheist books that also make very tight cases. Does that mean you must become atheist--I didn't.

    Second, you need to go slap your biology teachers silly for being so stupid. Evolutionary theory AT NO TIME states silly nonsense like "man used to be a monkey". When you start by telling outright lies about something you oppose, it's easy to demolish them, but then your own life is built on lies.

    Third, running around attacking Darwin's works, is as silly as claiming that physics is false because Aristotle's physics no longer holds up. Why are people unwilling to understand that science moves on. Science does not turn early scientists into infallible saints that must never be disagreed with?
     
  10. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    That does show you have no idea what evolution is, either the Darwinian form of a century and a half ago or the current formulation of evolution. Something that puzzles me - If someone has no idea at all what a system is, can they really be said to either believe it or disbelieve in that system? It strikes me very much like someone who claims to be a vegetarian because they don't eat read meat. What they say doesn't make any sense. Rephrasing what Bro Bryan wrote you should definitely fire your elementary school science teachers.

    I said that. The universe works the way it works whether any of us believe it or not. Accurate descriptions work whether any of us believe them or not. Approximations work within limited parameters whether we believe them or not or understand the parametrized limitations or not. Inaccurate descriptions fail whether we believe them or not. The universe doesn't change for failing to understand some principle. We don't stop falling because we fail to understand or believe in gravity. Evolution is one of those approximate descriptions and it has very well known parametrized limitations.
     
  11. BroBook

    BroBook Premium Member

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    Now one thing for sure I am not a biologist and have not been to school in years but I am doing some research now to
    See how did I get so misunderstood or confused maybe someone can explain to me what was implied by the poster that shows the progression of man now I know change does happen what I really meant by my original statement was if survival is the reason for change why would any previous models be still in existence and for the record you seem kind of irritated



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  12. BroBook

    BroBook Premium Member

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    ImageUploadedByMy Freemasonry1384886766.648223.jpg

    This is implying what???


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  13. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    It's an obsolete representation of what was then the best available evidence of how our ancestors changed over time. The fact that the last picture doesn't look anything like a combination of the two of us is one of its many problems. As the evidence grows it becomes more obsolete over time but parts of the pattern continue. That the first image is not like any of the current apes on the planet is one of its better points. Our nearest shared ancestor wasn't the same as any being alive today.

    It represents how the divine arrived at having the two of us in this world to have this conversation using the best evidence available at the time. The basic system of genetics and evolution that led to this result is wonderful in its elegance, the simplicity of its principles, the complexity of its results, the consistency of the evidence.

    You will note that such a chart can be made for every living being on the planet from the smallest lizard in the dust to the biggest whale in the sea. Yours and mine would be the same as we are blood kin going back only a small number of generations. The same chart for a chimp would show a sequence of different types of ape as they changed over the long span of time, finally ending in a generalization of the chimps of today's world. If we want to see our charts as a progression we might want to see the chimp's chart as a meandering. A chimp might see his chart is a history of how his people became better at ruling the forest with the human chart showing how bizarre humans became as their ancestors left his forest.

    I can try to have a broad perspective - One chart shows how the divine led to us having this conversation, but that's only our chart. Every one of God's creatures has such a chart and we are all of part of the same world. Remember the part of the second degree that talked about the worlds around us all following the same laws of nature? The same is true of all of God's creatures. The symmetries of nature at all scales.
     
  14. BroBook

    BroBook Premium Member

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    Okay my brother that was brotherly love!!!


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  15. mrm113

    mrm113 Registered User

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    of course the chart seems that we have the same generic evolutionary growth as every other species on earth, but in my opinion i feel that our evolution jump was faster than other lifeforms on earth.there had to be divine intervention in between the neanderthal age and homo-Erectus age.how we evolved in such a short period of time, we would be on the verge of evolution as we speak......i don't see the human race making dramatic evolutionary changes(physical) any time soon.lol
    but i could be wrong though.


    Brother Marvin Williams Jr
    William F. Burk Lodge #230
    New Jersey


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  16. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    The rise of genetic engineering suggest otherwise. We are in the process of going from no knowledge of genetics a couple centuries ago to no knowledge of the mechanics of genetics half a century ago to extensive control of the genetics of other species in the last couple of decades. Many of us alive now will see movement from repairing specific defects towards designer babies. I'm a fan of the movie Gattaca and I see "interesting times" happening when I am in retirement.
     
  17. Bro Darren

    Bro Darren Premium Member

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    The human race loves to explore and discover the hidden mechanics of life. Our imagination combined with a deep desire to unlock these things have lead to amazing discoveries that will shape our future in ways we can not imagine.

    I have no doubt that we will go from repair to design but what interests me is what comes after that.



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  18. jjjjjggggg

    jjjjjggggg Premium Member

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    Dfreybur- very much enjoying your responses... well reasoned and informed!


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  19. jjjjjggggg

    jjjjjggggg Premium Member

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  20. Brennan

    Brennan Registered User

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    I just watched that the other day. Love that show.


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