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EA and FC at stated meetings

rhitland

Founding Member
Premium Member
I did not know coffee had diffrent flavors but then again I am to young and just drink it for the buzz!! :)
 

Bill Lins

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
Nearest StarBux is 25 miles away and nearest DD is in Houston! :(
 
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scottmh59

Registered User
i don't think it's a good idea to have EAs and FCs in the stated meetings because they are either too boring or too exciting.

electricity bill or someone complaining.

i think they need to know what is going on in their lodge so they can better help. other wise their just getting 2nd hand info. on what is going on.:texasg:
 

Gerald.Harris

Premium Member
Premium Member
That's true. Our IPM wouldn't let EA's in under any conditions, but the current WM has no problem with it. The biggest problem we've had is for the MM's to remember which sign to give when voting! :D

Brother Bill,

You should get RW Griffin tell you the story about the first lodge he attended after the law changed, and how one of his former DI's did the unmentionable, he gave the wrong sign. I don't remember the world coming to an end that night, I'm not even certain that the Enterd Apprentices saw the sign that was given, but it happened to be a brother who had been a DI for over 18 years that made the mistake. I can tell you it is an easy mistake to make.
 

Bill Lins

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
Brother Bill,

You should get RW Griffin tell you the story about the first lodge he attended after the law changed, and how one of his former DI's did the unmentionable, he gave the wrong sign. I don't remember the world coming to an end that night, I'm not even certain that the Enterd Apprentices saw the sign that was given, but it happened to be a brother who had been a DI for over 18 years that made the mistake. I can tell you it is an easy mistake to make.

RUT ROW! :D (Only reason I haven't done it is because the Wardens have to vote first & I watch them- don't tell anybody!)

You're right- most EA's would never notice!
 

Wingnut

Premium Member
LOL I was filling in one night and made a point to tell each person that I handed the ballot box to or before they approached it that we were open in an EA lodge... didnt help lol
 

Chaplin the Elder

Registered User
Art. 331. Stated Meetings. Except when officially receiving
Grand Lodge Officers, all stated meetings of a Lodge may be
opened on the Entered Apprentice Degree or Fellowcraft Degree,
provided that if no Entered Apprentice or Fellowcraft Mason is
present, it shall be the option of the Worshipful Master to open
said meeting on either the Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft, or
Master’s Degree.
A Lodge opened on the Entered Apprentice
Degree for the purpose of holding a stated meeting, may be
opened and closed on such degree without first opening on the
Master’s Degree. At a stated meeting, the regular business of
the Lodge shall be transacted. At a stated meeting, only Master
Masons shall be entitled to vote. (Revised 2007


When I read this it implies that if a EA or a FC is at a meeting then you are required to open in the applicable degree to permit the entrance of those brothers. Is this accurate? The reason I ask is a facebook group, of which I'm a member, there is a question about opening meetings in these degrees and I did not think there was an option if a EA or FC was present.

Brother,

The word "May" in the article indicates the option is left to the Master. There are some lodge issues that a Master may not want to involve an EA or FC in hearing about or it may be, as an EA of FC, beyond their level of enlightenment.

I must, respectfully, disagree with the brother who thinks EAs and FCs are either too boring or too enthusiastic.

If they are boring, could it be a lack of inspiration from those above them?

If they are enthusiastic would it not be better to harness that enthusiasm and give rise to a future officer and/or builder of the lodge?

Given for thought, not for criticism.
 

owls84

Moderator
Premium Member
i don't think it's a good idea to have EAs and FCs in the stated meetings because they are either too boring or too exciting.

I believe what Bro. JTM means on the boring and excited is the meeting its self it is sometimes boring (just paying bills and reading minutes) or exciting (someone complaing or things that don't need to be heard by all members). Not the EAs and FCs themselves.
 

Chaplin the Elder

Registered User
I believe what Bro. JTM means on the boring and excited is the meeting its self it is sometimes boring (just paying bills and reading minutes) or exciting (someone complaing or things that don't need to be heard by all members). Not the EAs and FCs themselves.

I thought about that after I posted. However,

Boring: Why are the meetings boring? I submit that the Master, who has charge of the agenda, might be the cause. Grand Lodge programs, guest speakers, (both Masonic and non-Masonic), opening topics of law for discussion are all ways to make a meeting less boring while allowing the Master to maintain control and harmony within the lodge.

In the past Montgomery has given away door prizes to those in attendance. At our next meeting we are having Bro. Charles McKay as our guest speaker.


Exciting: well, yes, I can see your point. But, again, I submit that the Master might be the cause. The Master of the lodge, as we know has control over the meeting, can gavel a subject closed or a brother out of order during the meeting without right of appeal by the brothers. If it is done within the usual guidelines as such, peace and harmony will prevail.

Yes, there will always be those who feel that an EA or FC have no rights but I submit that they do and should be included - within degree boundaries - so they can see what the lodge is doing. Who knows, they just might come up with a way to make the meetings more interesting to all brothers. :rolleyes:

Just MHO.

Submitted for consideration and thought. Not to criticize.
 

Wingnut

Premium Member
This is apparently one of the hottest items to come out of GL in a long time! Ive heard almost as many complaints about this as the PHA issue!
 

Wingnut

Premium Member
We had a rather frank discussion at one of my lodges that was really on one specific area, but it branched out. Many/most of the old timers didnt think EA/FC should be allowed in a lodge room. That a lodge is for MM business only and they shouldnt have any input and that it hampers discussion. Several pointed out that some stopped coming to lodge because of it. Personally I think thats just an excuse...

I have read in some old proceedings (there I go again I know) where a GM ruled that since EA/FC are not members of the lodge, do not support the lodge (ie pay dues) that after their 1 yr is up and they haven't advanced there isnt a need to carry them on the books because it causes unnecessary paperwork.

Most hated the fact when I pointed out that prior to the Morgan Affair all lodges opened in the EA and in fact in Europe most still do today! \

My personal complaint about it is that it may be having the opposite effect than was desired. Instead of keeping EA/FC active, they get a chance to look behind the current and many say WTF! thats it? Arguing about bills? and dont return or finish thier work.
 

owls84

Moderator
Premium Member
Well I look at it as we have things for them. Bro. Tom has spoke of having a called meeting that would be held to handle educational papers and things like that. That meeting would be opened up in EA/FC lodges so that all Masons can attend. This has not came to light yet but will soon. Our EAs/FCs are active in other ways such as floor school and things of that nature. I just know here lately we have been tackling issues that they really don't need to be privy to.

Look at it this way, growing up only Varsity played on the Varsity field. There was a sense of pride when you made it and got to play on that field and infront of those stands. Now look at it in Masonry wouldn't the be added pride in being able to sit in lodge with the brethren at a stated meeting. To me it adds pride and gives them something to work towards. Hey, it may not work at your lodge but every since we switched it back to MM stated meetings things have gone smoother I think. The EA/FC are focused on work and not a statement that a PM made that may have been taken wrongly because they really don't know him yet. I just really don't see a benifit if I keep them active the rest of the month.

In a nut shell, Masonry is not all daffodils and daisys 100% of the time and there may be discussion at times. Remember we are still investigating these men until they become MMs.

(I was the first EA and FC allowed in a meeting at 148)
 

rhitland

Founding Member
Premium Member
The biggest complaint I have heard is that, they forget the sign and like the MM closing better then the other 2. I have never heard any deeper argument than that.
 
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