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Far Left or Far Right

Give the choice, who will the American voters choose - the far left or far right ?

  • Far Left

    Votes: 2 10.0%
  • Far Right

    Votes: 18 90.0%

  • Total voters
    20
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drapetomaniac

Premium Member
Premium Member
and was put in AND renewed by a democrate controlled congress!

Yep - no group ever reduces the powers of the president, because they hope one day their own president will have those powers. Which is what makes the recent expansion of accepting the Unitary Executive theory so dangerous (and having a Chief Justice who supports it).
 

drapetomaniac

Premium Member
Premium Member
And until we do, we haven't fixed anything.

We fixed lives, not the system.

Looking at the system of this fiasco, "nothing was done."

Looking at the lives affected at this moment, I can't say the same.

What often happens in these situations is the people recognize what happened and react. Instead, we keep personally identifying with execs and bankers.
 

Wingnut

Premium Member
What cracks me up is the GOP formula for handling the economic crisis was to do nothing. Thats real bold leadership.

As for Katrina, Bush dint cause it, but he damn sure did nothing after it happened. You wont find a Republican in the States of Louisiana that will have a kind word for Bush in regards to Katrina. Unless maybe they are in Shreveport.

and what exactly SHOULD the Federal government have done? If they step in they are accused of taking over states rights. If they dont do anything its the Feds fault. If the state doesnt ask for help or accept that which was offered its the STATES fault! I question WHY we are spending billions of dollars to repair a city that lies below sea level and will without a doubt be hit again? Stupid is as stupid does, and living below sea level on a coast line that is prone to hurricanes is not what Id call an intelligent decision!
 

rhitland

Founding Member
Premium Member
I am not saying it is candy land in Washington now nor would I say he close to the middle just closer than most. Nothing ever gets done up there unless it is cut throat and one party this is how it has been for many years and will take at least half that long to change it if we wanted to. So to say we are going to come up with anything that the Rep.s and Dem.s would agree on right now would be to say we live in Candy Land. Right or Wrong that is how the system works at present so we gotta use it.
 

Wingnut

Premium Member
True. But we're not going to let the kids go sleep in the street to learn their lesson. It wouldn't be the fat cat bankers punished it would be all of us. I don't want to be punished for another man's mistake.

The banks were forced to give loans for mortages they couldnt afford and couldnt qualify for. When the bubble broke the banks failed, thank you Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Just last week Obama was telling banks they need to start lending more money! To who? People that cant afford it? Thats what got this ball rolling to begin with! The kids no! When we bought our house, I was told I qualified for a rather substantial loan. The bank and the realtor was really pushing me to get a house that was way above what I thought was affordable. My thinking, my military retirement is xxx and I wanted payments right around that not 2 to 3x that!

An interesting thought and study is to look at the time line of the recession and when it started and took its big dives. Strange how the correlates to timeframe of the campaign where people were talking about how bad the economy was. The more people said how bad it was, the worse it got. Self fulfilling prophecy?

Bailouts were wrong when Bush did them, they were wrong when Obama did them!
 

drapetomaniac

Premium Member
Premium Member
and what exactly SHOULD the Federal government have done? If they step in they are accused of taking over states rights. If they dont do anything its the Feds fault. If the state doesnt ask for help or accept that which was offered its the STATES fault! I question WHY we are spending billions of dollars to repair a city that lies below sea level and will without a doubt be hit again? Stupid is as stupid does, and living below sea level on a coast line that is prone to hurricanes is not what Id call an intelligent decision!

On the state refusing help: http://www.snopes.com/katrina/politics/blanco.asp

On "taking over states rights" : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act#Recent_legislative_events

We're building a tower where the last one was knocked down. Many of our fondest locations are in deserts or ice. If we read the settling of the west or Texas with the same eye, we can call every pioneer an idiot.
 

Wingnut

Premium Member
I am not saying it is candy land in Washington now nor would I say he close to the middle just closer than most. Nothing ever gets done up there unless it is cut throat and one party this is how it has been for many years and will take at least half that long to change it if we wanted to. So to say we are going to come up with anything that the Rep.s and Dem.s would agree on right now would be to say we live in Candy Land. Right or Wrong that is how the system works at present so we gotta use it.

No they should be working WITH eachother. When the dems work on a bill and tell the republicans they arent welcome in the room so its written by interns and what appears from their views to be very far left you get a bill that has more PAGES than the Constituion has WORDS and doesnt come close to even trying to fix the real problem. No medical reform isnt about REFORM, its about control.
 

rhitland

Founding Member
Premium Member
The banks were forced to give loans for mortages they couldnt afford and couldnt qualify for. When the bubble broke the banks failed, thank you Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Just last week Obama was telling banks they need to start lending more money! To who? People that cant afford it? Thats what got this ball rolling to begin with! The kids no! When we bought our house, I was told I qualified for a rather substantial loan. The bank and the realtor was really pushing me to get a house that was way above what I thought was affordable. My thinking, my military retirement is xxx and I wanted payments right around that not 2 to 3x that!

An interesting thought and study is to look at the time line of the recession and when it started and took its big dives. Strange how the correlates to timeframe of the campaign where people were talking about how bad the economy was. The more people said how bad it was, the worse it got. Self fulfilling prophecy?

Bailouts were wrong when Bush did them, they were wrong when Obama did them!

Could not agree more. I was a Personal Banker for a bank in the good times of lending and we where to push the Adjustable Rate Mortgage which I knew after reading all about it was a scam unless you where flipping the house within 6 months or so and then it was hard to get one so they where utterly useless and a scam in my opinion whihc lead me to selling none and pressure being applied greatly to sell them so I ended up leaving on that note and a few others. I also when I bought my house got approved for more than I needed and without proof of income which blew my mind. With banks getting free money right now I can only see us going down that same road.
 

drapetomaniac

Premium Member
Premium Member
It seems popular to ignore the balloon payment (usury, loan sharking) that actually sparked this. People were able to afford their loans before the balloon payments went into effect. Senator Orrin Hatch at one point pointed out that it had nothing to do with risk to have a payment balloon after someone pays on time for several years. It should go down. People could and did afford their sane payments.

And yes, it's their own fault for sitting in a room and closing the deal with professionals in that specific sector on the other side of the table, with billions of dollars invested in additional profiteering.

When I closed on my house I had to sign a piece of paper written in spanish (I'm told it was saying I could understand the English documents). I had a choice of not signing the document I couldn't read (my last name is Spanish, not my primary language) it or losing the house. People make stupid decisions, but we got our house.

A lot of average families signed stupid contracts put into place by professionals, lawyers and bankers sitting on the other side of the table who then made a whole market based ont he balloon (loan shark) payments.

But the fact is, they were able to pay on time until the loan shark portion kicked in. And did for years. And it had nothing to do with risk.
 

TCShelton

Founding Member
Premium Member
We fixed lives, not the system.

So the "lives" will go through this again, because the system is still broken. We threw a ton of money at the problem to keep people from suffering. People will still buy stuff they can't afford. It still boils down to consequences, no matter how ugly they are. I'm all for raking the bankers over the coals. I'm all for prison time for most of those guys. I'm not for paying for their mistakes. I don't identify with any of them. I identify with the hours I work, and money those hours earn.

My point is, the solution we used was not a good one. If the govt had to interfere, it could/should have done a lot better than it did.
 

rhitland

Founding Member
Premium Member
No they should be working WITH eachother. When the dems work on a bill and tell the republicans they arent welcome in the room so its written by interns and what appears from their views to be very far left you get a bill that has more PAGES than the Constituion has WORDS and doesnt come close to even trying to fix the real problem. No medical reform isnt about REFORM, its about control.

Thus the Dem.s screw up and the Rep.s come and fix it then screw up then the Dem.s come and fix it then screw up, so on and so forth and until we want to fix it it will stay the same but would you not agree something has to get done maybe not on health care but pick your issue and one of them will mess it up.. !
 

TCShelton

Founding Member
Premium Member
Thus the Dem.s screw up and the Rep.s come and fix it then screw up then the Dem.s come and fix it then screw up, so on and so forth and until we want to fix it it will stay the same but would you not agree something has to get done maybe not on health care but pick your issue and one of them will mess it up.. !

+1.
 

Wingnut

Premium Member
On the state refusing help: http://www.snopes.com/katrina/politics/blanco.asp

On "taking over states rights" : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act#Recent_legislative_events

We're building a tower where the last one was knocked down. Many of our fondest locations are in deserts or ice. If we read the settling of the west or Texas with the same eye, we can call every pioneer an idiot.

Apples and oranges! Living in the desert people have learned to fend for themselves, they arent asking the government to rebuild them. If you live on a beach chances are your gonna get swell. If you live below sea level your going to flood. If YOU cant overcome your environment you will lose to it. In the west man learned to find water on his own. If they didnt they died. They learned how to work with nature and not against it. Posse Commitatus was put in place to prevent the National Military from enforcing civil law. After Katrina the outcry for using the military became so huge they asked to have the law changed to allow the military to assist after a disaster. Unlike most countries, the US Military isnt the Police. They arent trained to be and shouldnt be! Giving the military police powers was a mistake. While it would be nice to use them for drug and boarder control thats a slippery slope that should be avoided.
 

Wingnut

Premium Member
It seems popular to ignore the balloon payment (usury, loan sharking) that actually sparked this. People were able to afford their loans before the balloon payments went into effect. Senator Orrin Hatch at one point pointed out that it had nothing to do with risk to have a payment balloon after someone pays on time for several years. It should go down. People could and did afford their sane payments.

And yes, it's their own fault for sitting in a room and closing the deal with professionals in that specific sector on the other side of the table, with billions of dollars invested in additional profiteering.

When I closed on my house I had to sign a piece of paper written in spanish (I'm told it was saying I could understand the English documents). I had a choice of not signing the document I couldn't read (my last name is Spanish, not my primary language) it or losing the house. People make stupid decisions, but we got our house.

A lot of average families signed stupid contracts put into place by professionals, lawyers and bankers sitting on the other side of the table who then made a whole market based ont he balloon (loan shark) payments.

But the fact is, they were able to pay on time until the loan shark portion kicked in. And did for years. And it had nothing to do with risk.

When I closed I was told I should have a lawyer there, and I did. Getting a non-fixed rate mortgage is a recipe for disaster. Nobody can rationalize it any way other than that. If interest rates go up so does your payments. This isnt rocket science just common sense. Yes I could have gotten a 500k house and I could have made the payments at the time. Common sense told me that I knew I had x amount from retirement for the rest of my life. If I kept my payments below that I would ALWAYS have my house paid for. I can eat by working for McDonalds if I have to. Risk v Reward and how much risk your comfortable with taking with your family's welfare.
 

TCShelton

Founding Member
Premium Member
I think that anytime you sign your name on any dotted line when financing, it is a risk, regardless of whether you can currently afford it, particularly in those "no money down" situations.
 

drapetomaniac

Premium Member
Premium Member
Apples and oranges! Living in the desert people have learned to fend for themselves, they arent asking the government to rebuild them.

Is the government totally uninvolved in maintaining the damns, pipelines and other materials used to put water in the desert and mountain areas? It's been pointed out that Phoenix has an artificial humidity level because of the lawns and pools.

If you live on a beach chances are your gonna get swell. If you live below sea level your going to flood. If YOU cant overcome your environment you will lose to it. In the west man learned to find water on his own. If they didnt they died. They learned how to work with nature and not against it.

Many states, counties and others have been fighting over water and water contracts supplying each other for years.
People figured out how to live in flood levels too - levees.

Posse Commitatus was put in place to prevent the National Military from enforcing civil law. After Katrina the outcry for using the military became so huge they asked to have the law changed to allow the military to assist after a disaster. Unlike most countries, the US Military isnt the Police. They arent trained to be and shouldnt be! Giving the military police powers was a mistake. While it would be nice to use them for drug and boarder control thats a slippery slope that should be avoided.

The US military already had the ability to perform rescue. People wanted it to "crack down" - which again shows our appetite. People still want them on our border even though an American civilian was killed the first time. (After the doem was emptied the National Guard when searching for bodies - anyone remember how many were found versus reported?)
 
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Sirius

Registered User
Thus the Dem.s screw up and the Rep.s come and fix it then screw up then the Dem.s come and fix it then screw up, so on and so forth and until we want to fix it it will stay the same but would you not agree something has to get done maybe not on health care but pick your issue and one of them will mess it up.. !

This is why I started this thread. No matter where you are on the political spectrum, there is a balance that is eventually found. Between the left and the right we should end up in the middle with compromise between those who want limited govt and those who believe in activist government. One will nerve do away with the other. They will always be seeking balance. It's pointless to be angry at the other side. But rather its constructive t find common ground and compromise.
 

drapetomaniac

Premium Member
Premium Member
When I closed I was told I should have a lawyer there, and I did. Getting a non-fixed rate mortgage is a recipe for disaster. Nobody can rationalize it any way other than that. If interest rates go up so does your payments. This isnt rocket science just common sense. Yes I could have gotten a 500k house and I could have made the payments at the time. Common sense told me that I knew I had x amount from retirement for the rest of my life. If I kept my payments below that I would ALWAYS have my house paid for. I can eat by working for McDonalds if I have to. Risk v Reward and how much risk your comfortable with taking with your family's welfare.

That's not common sense - that's education. I haven't read the book yet, but "Rich Dad Poor Dad" is a book which is said to lay out what is put down from generation to generation. If you stopped the average american and asked for an explanation of interest rates - do you think we'll get a thorough answer?

I'm a strong proponent of of requiring a credit class in high school before graduation or GED.

I've heard nothing showing the average value of the houses foreclose on was anywhere near $500k (except the wealthy foreclosures easily eclipse and skew the numbers - I lived in a one room apartment where the average property value was 4$mil because of nearby houses)
 

drapetomaniac

Premium Member
Premium Member
My point is, the solution we used was not a good one. If the govt had to interfere, it could/should have done a lot better than it did.

I absolutely agree. The cycle will be repeated and has been several time. There is a strong theory that is repeated validated that the US needs a poverty class to "succeed".

But I would much rather keep families off the street "first." We can skin the cats after. But it would be ideal to do both at the same time before amnesia kicks in.

I think people look at those jobs lost as abstract numbers instead of people.
 
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