how when and where

[Frater Cliff Porter]

From a message from Jvarnell

I don't understand why with all of things you have studied and writen you don't understand about classes. I can only guess that the EA work in your state is not the same as the great state of Texas. You do sound like a self serving detective I knew in the Dallas PD that now after the DNA project in Texas has had has had about 28% of his cases overturned where the people had bencovicted.

Please think about your EA work and what qulifys a man to be made a mason. If you are a real Mason and can remember your work you will know what I am talking about in not look up the word Cowan. This whole thing about class makes me wonder.

I have always found it interesting that some will be cruel in private and not in public while trying to convince someone to be "Masonic."

I don't think men need to agree to be Brothers. I also don't think that sending a private message with personal pokes and insults is necessary. I think it shows a certain level of immaturity of thought.

Brother Jvarnell, you are my Brother. We disagree. Its not the end of the world. Masonry isn't about men always agreeing, its about men that don't agree agreeing to still love one another in spite of those differences.

I don't think that sending private attacks while maintaining a public face of harmony is Masonic. I don't respond to these kinds of things and have private close door arguments. What I have to say I am comfortable saying right here on the forum or I do not say them.

 

[SeeKer.mm]

I agree we should agree to disagree for if we all agreed the forums would be quite boring!

 

[polmjonz]

Having been in the Philippines and having plenty of Filipino family and friends i can suggest that Masonry has a tendency to be regarded as reserved for the well to do, and the thought of being a part of it can be a big deal to somebody who may not be from that upbringing. I remember i took a school teacher friend of mine to a Christmas party in Bahrain that was sponsored by the Traveler's Tribe there among a few other organization. we had a long discussion on the ride back to his house about what i thought about Masonry and what his thoughts were. Unfortunately at the time i was speaking as a profane outside the door and my discussion was based on what i have seen from the Masons i had known until that time and how i perceived them. I wish this gentleman luck in is search as i know it can be a difficult one especially when you are hungry. Marc make sure you are trying to join for the right reasons and those my friend only you will know although I'm sure you will be asked multiple times during your quest. I will tell you that Masonry in and of itself will not make you financially wealthy and should not be relied up on for it's relief, but will put you in the company of many good men whose ideals are some of the best in the world. As I've said before Sir, Good Luck to you and if i can be of further assistance in anyway please let me know.

 

[polmjonz]

BTW, good on you Bro. Porter. although i have no knowledge of that topic i must agree with your stance.

 

[jvarnell]

From a message from Jvarnell


I have always found it interesting that some will be cruel in private and not in public while trying to convince someone to be "Masonic."

I don't think men need to agree to be Brothers. I also don't think that sending a private message with personal pokes and insults is necessary. I think it shows a certain level of immaturity of thought.

Brother Jvarnell, you are my Brother. We disagree. Its not the end of the world. Masonry isn't about men always agreeing, its about men that don't agree agreeing to still love one another in spite of those differences.

I don't think that sending private attacks while maintaining a public face of harmony is Masonic. I don't respond to these kinds of things and have private close door arguments. What I have to say I am comfortable saying right here on the forum or I do not say them.

I was not trying to be "cruel" I was trying to under stand and I thought that this was better done between brothers. This was far from being an attack. I just belive you are wrong! I also thought that if you looked at your EA and actuly think about what it says you will see you are wrong. I also and sorry that you are so wrong in your thinking that you thought that my privet messages was to attack you it was to try to get you to think about the word class and where it cam from.

I don't mind schooling author in public about the base or root of something. I was doing a privet message so that you had time to rethink some of the most basic parts of masanry this was not about YOU it was about Masonary and the guy in Japan getting off to a good starts of the tenants in Masonary. I already hollered cafe rope and sent you a privet message so we could continue this discussion. I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND why some of the symbols in the EA have alluded you.

Did you want me to say more in Public..............................

 

[Frater Cliff Porter]

You can feel free to say as you wish. I understand your emotional response to the subject. You can "school" me all you like. I didn't write a book to stop learning, I wrote a book to share the process of learning that I am undergoing with others.

There is an edge to your tone and an underlying sub-context to your words indicative of someone who has some long standing thoughts and issues with groups or people they have relegated to authoritative. In other words, you have created a class; but me in one and you in the other

I don't believe its necessary for me to single out the personal insults that were intended as such. I take no offense and understand that we all respond to disagreement differently.

Instead of repeating that I don't understand something, as I recall all of the working tools of the EA degree and the other symbols present to include the point within the circle bordered by two parallel lines are all monitorial. Why not provide how Masonry, in its teachings and ritual, are anti-class as you have claimed? I don't believe this argument can be supported well when the practices of Freemasonry are taken into consideration and would be happy to provide legitimate argument of the same once I understood your position more than a simple accusation that I misunderstand Freemasonry.

 

[Marc lester]

Thank you sir polmjonz I do understand that I wouldn't get a financial wealth being a mason I want to acquire more than a financial wealth knowledge and I wanna become a better man through freemasonry teachings again thanks for piece of knowledge that I gained here again today

 

[jvarnell]

I don't know what I can and can not say but it had nothing to do with working tools it had to do with why you did certain things in it ritual. Also all of the working tools are just that tools to implement conecpts thought to us in the rituals to the end all to be all. I was hoping your mind would have focused on what I trying to point out and not what I was pointing with.

I don't know who you are, we are not within the confines of a lodge and I don't really know how much I am able to say on a forum like this that is public. You have already posted a privet message and I take the Obligation to hart.

It is done, say your last words to try to cut me down to a lower class ;^) and that not said as a personal insult.

 

[Brent Heilman]

I think we just need to agree to disagree. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Classes or no classes in Masonry is not a life changing topic. Some us say there are classes and some don't think so. Whatever the case may be they are nothing more than opinions. Nothing about the classes is factual, and is all open to interpretation. The symbols used in Masonry are but that, symbols. I may interpret one thing in one way and some other guy may interpret it in a different way. Neither of us are wrong, we simply have different opinions on what a particular symbol may mean. This is no different and I think we are starting to drift too far off topic and need to look at what the original question was and get back on topic. If you want start a new thread and continue there without the attacks.

 

[polmjonz]

Marc,
Also be aware that there are currently two non-PHA Grand Lodges in the Philippines. A number of years ago a group of lodges from the Cavite area and one from Pampanga ceded from the grand lodge of the Philippines. I am yet unaware that they have been granted recognition by the UGLE. So if you were to decide to return to the Philippines to start your journey i would find out which lodge your petitioning to and if the Independent Grand Lodge Philippine Islands has received recognition from UGLE. It may not matter much in your local experience but it may play into some of the global benefits of being a Mason. There used to be a lengthy dissertation of what an why the separation occurred on the IGLPI website and there is some very good information on the site historically speaking of Masonry in the Philippines. Again Pare, If you need any assistance or further help with information let me know and ill help out as much as i can.

 

[JustinScott]

It says the same for me and I am not one either the forums says I am by default