Is hazing allowed in DeMolay initiation rites?

[Shadow Puppet]

By dictionary definition, is hazing allowed to be done during initiation? I was a DeMolay petitioner and although I will break my vow of silence after 2-3 years, I want to raise this question for my brother's sake because he wants to join the same lodge. I'm worried because physical harm was the reason I quit being its petitioner. They didn't do anything hardcore though, but it is definitely hazing to a milder level. I caught a fever the next day because of shock and since I'm not physically fit I still gave my all to do everything they told me to.


There's probably nothing wrong about that, maybe it's not for me. After all, Freemasonry is not for everyone - but I just want to make sure because hazing would be the last thing that I would expect from a masonic lodge - at least during initiation. I think diligence, honesty, and awareness of one's egoic self is far more important than proving you can submit to elderly authority.

 

[Kenneth NC Mason]

Well...I personally went through both the Blue Lodge York Rite and DeMolay initiatic rites I can assure you no hazing was involved in either body. I'm pretty sure in DeMolay a chapter could get into some serious trouble with the EO if it was found out they did anything beyond the prescribed ritual


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[Shadow Puppet]

Well...I personally went through both the Blue Lodge York Rite and DeMolay initiatic rites I can assure you no hazing was involved in either body. I'm pretty sure in DeMolay a chapter could get into some serious trouble with the EO if it was found out they did anything beyond the prescribed ritual

Thanks for the quick and clear response.

Also, I remember very well, one of them told me a few minutes before the initiation in our local language "Hey, don't be shocked, there's still hazing, but just a bit - can't be helped...this is a fraternity after all".

P.S. If anyone wants the details of what happened you can ask me and I will share it in this thread.
EDIT: I can't remember the exact orders but I can name a few things they did to me and made me do during the rite.

 

[Kenneth NC Mason]

Oh please do... this is quite a shock to me that this happened to you . Considering i come from a family of 3 Cousian who are Rainbow Girls , a Uncle who is a Senior DeMolay & MM, along with plenty of Mason's in the family beyond just me totaling to about 10 I've never heard of this . Cool little tid bit about my Masonic family it is spread across three states ( NC VA OH). I actually had my Master Mason Uncle from VA , my Senior DeMolay and Master Mason Uncle from Ohio , and my NC master Mason step dad involved in my master Mason degree it was quite special to say the least...


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[Ripcord22A]

in our local language

2 questions....Are you a Mason now? and Local Lanuage? what do you mean by that?

 

[Shadow Puppet]

Oh please do... this is quite a shock to me that this happened to you . Considering i come from a family of 3 Cousian who are Rainbow Girls , a Uncle who is a Senior DeMolay & MM, along with plenty of Mason's in the family beyond just me totaling to about 10 I've never heard of this . Cool little tid bit about my Masonic family it is spread across three states ( NC VA OH). I actually had my Master Mason Uncle from VA , my Senior DeMolay and Master Mason Uncle from Ohio , and my NC master Mason step dad involved in my master Mason degree it was quite special to say the least...

Woah, that's quite a family. Awesome, thanks for sharing!


Anyway some of the things that happened during my initiation: punching the abdomen (though not full swings, and they kinda told me to prepare for it - I should harden my abdominal muscles). Some push ups.. fast, and they push me down as I do them, furthering the difficulty and the physical strain. I can't remember the others well, but there's this one mental image I still have that they kinda asked me to pull my pants down. Forgot what happened, nothing lewd for sure but they kinda tested my obedience. Anyway there were also some cliche tests such as making me feel the point of the knife then asking me to slap it down with my palm. EDIT : I was blindfolded during these set of tests

 

[Shadow Puppet]

2 questions....Are you a Mason now? and Local Lanuage? what do you mean by that?

No, I'm not a Mason. I was 18/19 when that happened, and I was thinking, I'll just try masonry when I'm 21 (legal age) in my country - Philippines. But the experience in that initiation made me think of few things, if that's how things really are for masonic lodges I think it's not for me. I don't really mind it that much but it definitely affected by view of stepping in a lodge again. I personally believe they should reform their ways (or better yet, thinking) though.

About the 'local language', we aren't native English speakers and our first language is Tagalog.

 

[Ripcord22A]

No, I'm not a Mason. I was 18/19 when that happened, and I was thinking, I'll just try masonry when I'm 21 (legal age) in my country - Philippines. But the experience in that initiation made me think of few things, if that's how things really are for masonic lodges I think it's not for me. I don't really mind it that much but it definitely affected by view of stepping in a lodge again. I personally believe they should reform their ways (or better yet, thinking) though.

About the 'local language', we aren't native English speakers and our first language is Tagalog.

Ok your profile just didn't say where you were from. now it makes sense. As for the Hazing in a Lodge...I cant speak from the GLoPhilippines but here it is strictly forbidden. and for Demolay they are governed by an international council so there shouldn't be any hazing there either. but as for comparing your experience in Demolay to that in a MM Lodge you cant really do that, 2 separate things. Yes Demolay is related to the Masonic order but its a bunch of kids overseen by MM. From what Ive been told(I am not a Demolay) the kids run everything and the MMs are just kinda there to make sure the building doesn't burn down.....

 

[Shadow Puppet]

Ok your profile just didn't say where you were from. now it makes sense. As for the Hazing in a Lodge...I cant speak from the GLoPhilippines but here it is strictly forbidden. and for Demolay they are governed by an international council so there shouldn't be any hazing there either. but as for comparing your experience in Demolay to that in a MM Lodge you cant really do that, 2 separate things. Yes Demolay is related to the Masonic order but its a bunch of kids overseen by MM. From what Ive been told(I am not a Demolay) the kids run everything and the MMs are just kinda there to make sure the building doesn't burn down.....

I see, thanks for clarifying. Well I think I'll have my brother know things for himself. It's his own journey anyway.

 

[mrpierce17]

By dictionary definition, is hazing allowed to be done during initiation? I was a DeMolay petitioner and although I will break my vow of silence after 2-3 years, I want to raise this question for my brother's sake because he wants to join the same lodge. I'm worried because physical harm was the reason I quit being its petitioner. They didn't do anything hardcore though, but it is definitely hazing to a milder level. I caught a fever the next day because of shock and since I'm not physically fit I still gave my all to do everything they told me to.


There's probably nothing wrong about that, maybe it's not for me. After all, Freemasonry is not for everyone - but I just want to make sure because hazing would be the last thing that I would expect from a masonic lodge - at least during initiation. I think diligence, honesty, and awareness of one's egoic self is far more important than proving you can submit to elderly authority.

I can't speak on DeMolay but I am a Sr Knigh and the council director of our KOP ( Knights of Pythagoras ) council witch is the PHA equivalent of DeMolay our councils are supervised by Sr Knights (MM's) and I can assure you that hazing is strictly prohibited and will land you in some hot water both my sons are Jr Knights and if I ever got wind of them being hazed someone would have a serious problem that's a big no no I don't know of any good parent that plays the radio when it comes to there kids I sure as heck don't play about mine , that incident should have been reported to the GM or the state director


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[mrpierce17]

Woah, that's quite a family. Awesome, thanks for sharing!


Anyway some of the things that happened during my initiation: punching the abdomen (though not full swings, and they kinda told me to prepare for it - I should harden my abdominal muscles). Some push ups.. fast, and they push me down as I do them, furthering the difficulty and the physical strain. I can't remember the others well, but there's this one mental image I still have that they kinda asked me to pull my pants down. Forgot what happened, nothing lewd for sure but they kinda tested my obedience. Anyway there were also some cliche tests such as making me feel the point of the knife then asking me to slap it down with my palm. EDIT : I was blindfolded during these set of tests

Our initiations are nowhere close to this

Ok your profile just didn't say where you were from. now it makes sense. As for the Hazing in a Lodge...I cant speak from the GLoPhilippines but here it is strictly forbidden. and for Demolay they are governed by an international council so there shouldn't be any hazing there either. but as for comparing your experience in Demolay to that in a MM Lodge you cant really do that, 2 separate things. Yes Demolay is related to the Masonic order but its a bunch of kids overseen by MM. From what Ive been told(I am not a Demolay) the kids run everything and the MMs are just kinda there to make sure the building doesn't burn down.....

Our councils are ran by the kids to an extent we are there in case they get out of hand we usually don't interfere unless they start going overboard hazing would definitely be overboard and it is required for a Sr Knight (MM) to give a ( lecture / words of inspiration) at each meeting


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[Bloke]

Hi

That sort of behaviour in a lodge here would see it admonished at best. If it continued - bye bye warrant.

I'm from Australia, and we have a strong Filipino Masonic Community here.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/FILIPINO-FREEMASONS-VICTORIA/118678714825960?v=wall.

You might want to share that story because it is a cautionary tale of what not to do. I'd actually write to the head of DeMolay, or every Grand Lodge Philipines. That said, I've spoken to several Filipino MMs made in the Philipines and it sounds a lot more "rigorous" than we American or Australian or European Grand Lodges practice, and indeed unacceptable in those countries. It might be unofficially acceptable in the Philippines, but if it is, they have a serious problem which other regular Grand Lodges would move quickly to solve.

 

[Shadow Puppet]

Our initiations are nowhere close to this






Our councils are ran by the kids to an extent we are there in case they get out of hand we usually don't interfere unless they start going overboard hazing would definitely be overboard and it is required for a Sr Knight (MM) to give a ( lecture / words of inspiration) at each meeting

I see, now it becomes clearer. Thanks for your response, I think I'll follow Bloke's suggestions in sharing what happened.

 

[Shadow Puppet]

Hi

That sort of behaviour in a lodge here would see it admonished at best. If it continued - bye bye warrant.

I'm from Australia, and we have a strong Filipino Masonic Community here.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/FILIPINO-FREEMASONS-VICTORIA/118678714825960?v=wall.

You might want to share that story because it is a cautionary tale of what not to do. I'd actually write to the head of DeMolay, or every Grand Lodge Philipines. That said, I've spoken to several Filipino MMs made in the Philipines and it sounds a lot more "rigorous" than we American or Australian or European Grand Lodges practice, and indeed unacceptable in those countries. It might be unofficially acceptable in the Philippines, but if it is, they have a serious problem which other regular Grand Lodges would move quickly to solve.

Thank you for reaching out. How do I share? Shall I proceed to message the Facebook page?

 

[Bloke]

Thank you for reaching out. How do I share? Shall I proceed to message the Facebook page?

Their web site is down, you provably want to get to their Grand Sec not a site admin. In the first instance, I would send a letter in the post to DeMolay...

 

[Shadow Puppet]

Their web site is down, you provably want to get to their Grand Sec not a site admin. In the first instance, I would send a letter in the post to DeMolay...

Noted. I will try to reach out to them, thanks.

 

[Kenneth NC Mason]

I agree with his suggestion

Go to DeMolay international

Aka demolay.org

Type in find a chapter

Your particular state or country should pull up

Then whatever contact info is listed I would get in touch with them

Just my ten cents



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[Shadow Puppet]

I agree with his suggestion

Go to DeMolay international

Aka demolay.org

Type in find a chapter

Your particular state or country should pull up

Then whatever contact info is listed I would get in touch with them

Just my ten cents

I have contact with one or two who performed the ritual on me. Won't I be getting into some trouble if I get back to them directly? I'm pretty sure they won't like what I'm supposed to do, especially if they have been there for a very long time already. I don't know the hierarchy of masonic lodges..is there a lodge superior I can contact except for them?

 

[Ripcord22A]

I have contact with one or two who performed the ritual on me. Won't I be getting into some trouble if I get back to them directly? I'm pretty sure they won't like what I'm supposed to do, especially if they have been there for a very long time already. I don't know the hierarchy of masonic lodges..is there a lodge superior I can contact except for them?

yes, DeMolay international. DeMolay.org

 

[Shadow Puppet]

yes, DeMolay international. DeMolay.org

I think Philippine chapters aren't in here..