is it a requirement US legal status to join the Freemasonry?

Discussion in 'Frequently Asked Questions' started by ryorta, Oct 7, 2009.

  1. Sirius

    Sirius Registered User

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    Scott is speaking in smiley faces now. Hmmm I think he's going around the bend.


    Same Here.
     
  2. Bill Lins

    Bill Lins Moderating Staff Staff Member

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    First, in answer to JTM's question, illegal entry is an "administrative misdemeanor"- not a felony, according to the Feds.

    Secondly, regarding work given in a foreign language, all work in a Texas Lodge is required to be performed in English (Art. 127).

    Thirdly, although I am in sympathy with any man who tries to make a better life for himself & his family, the simple truth of the matter is that this country just cannot accomodate everyone in the world who wishes to live here. We simply don't have the space, jobs, or resources to support them. Additionally, as pointed out earlier, not everyone who comes here is a good person just wanting a better life- many of them are criminals in other ways besides just being here illegally.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2009
  3. Blake Bowden

    Blake Bowden Administrator Staff Member

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    Absolutely.

    How can one meet the responsibilities and duties of Freemasonry if they're here illegally? If one cannot follow the rule of law, how are we supposed to trust him as a Brother?
     
  4. ryorta

    ryorta Registered User

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    I am so glad that my question has been answer. I've never seen such issue being discuss with so many different people and different points of view. However, it seems that all of us have some "stereotyping" and "stigmatizing" image of what the question covers.

    Allow me to be more specific with the question. This is a story:

    A student just graduated from college with a bachelors of [fill any career here] with honors, the best GPA from a well recognized university, with the best recommendations from high-rank staff from the university.

    Sadly, he can't get paycheck, he can't work with the best companies pertaining to his field, he can't vote, he can't travel around the country like his/her other classmates who graduated with him.

    Why? because his family left his homeland to seek a better life since he was a little child-- an american dream--. He grew up here thinking as an american, he call HOME a country that he is very aware that he is "Ghost". He is an illegal alien.

    He, and his family, suffered discrimination, trying to adapt to a lifestyle unknown for them. He and his family respect all local and state laws, excellent moral, excellent community recognitions.

    This student hears about the Freemasonry, a place to seek light, seek an internal hope, a place that he can get involve more with the people--a brotherhood--. He is seeking a place to be hear, to get to know more people, and to do things that can help other people in misfortune.

    Can Freemasonry help? Can Freemasonry change the life of this lost soul? Can Freemasonry transform his life more beneficial to the community?

    He didn't choose to be illegal, but he is willing to give life, soul, tear and sweat to honor the freemasonry. But how if the requirement is a US birth certificate, a visa, a passport?

    Can Freemasonry do something to this outstanding individual?
    Freemasonry doesn't allow atheists, criminals and people with disability--CRIMINALS-- Being illegal is federal crime. He didn't want to commit it. He was a little boy when he got here.

    I think as brothers, the Supreme Being can do anything he wants. We should realize that all of us are born in the same planet, under the same sky. And if we see a very, and deep committed candidate---No matter what circumstances surround him--The Lodge should give him a chance.

    Personally, that's what I am thinking. I understand everybody's point of view. But we should do something about this interesting and fascinating issue
     
  5. Blake Bowden

    Blake Bowden Administrator Staff Member

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    How can his family respect "all local and state laws" when they continue to break them?
     
  6. MGM357

    MGM357 Registered User

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    When an induvidual petitions a lodge, isn't one the questions asked on the petition is do you live within the district of the lodge ?

    Why can't the individual become a citizen and then try to become a Brother?
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2009
  7. scottmh59

    scottmh59 Registered User

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    i agree..if he loves this country so much,and is so smart,why does he not become legal? until he becomes a legal citizen he is breaking this countrys laws. how could we expect him to follow the laws of freemasonry?
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2009
  8. Sirius

    Sirius Registered User

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    It is.

    He should.
     
  9. rhitland

    rhitland Founding Member Premium Member

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    I commend you on your steadfastness to hold the laws of this country and the intent to follow Masonic law but what you are asking is for us to break this law. Which us no longer being children have no excuse. We joined Masonry by an obligation to uphold these laws so we would not only be breaking Masonic law we would be breaking an oath to God.

    To answer your questions about Masonry though it can change any individuals life who is willing to invest the time into but this is true with almost any useful art.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2009
  10. Wingnut

    Wingnut Premium Member

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    to add to what Rhit is saying... no man has a RIGHT to be made a Mason, it is earned and our requirements to join are set in stone (no pun intended).
     
  11. JBD

    JBD Premium Member

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    Let me address this one chunk at a time -

    This highly educated, highly touted, highly acclaimed, obviously intelligent "student" is ILLEGAL

    In the 16 years it took him to get that degree (probably on in-state tuition rates when he should be paying out of state) he had plenty of time at 18 years old to apply for citizenship, he obviously has had the education to pass a citizenship test - - Oh wait he is ILLEGAL

    He and his family does not suuport, uphold, revere or all laws, only those they chose to adhere to.

    Freemasonry can help, it doesn't save souls, it is not a religion, it cannot take a criminal and eerase his past. it cannot take an illegal alien and make him a citizen - Masonry takes a good man and makes him better.

    If he truly does not want to be in a continuing criminal circumstance he needs to rectify that situation. It will not be painless, it will most likely take years, but he needs to take the first step.

    "The Lodge should give him a chance" ....... We are not rehab, we are not the judiciary, we are a Fraternity. Our members are law abiding, honest, hard working people. We did not get in because we were "given a chance" we were admitted because we could demonstrate who we were and what we were about. AND that we were not engaged in a continuing criminal situation - most could demonstrate they had NEVER been in a criminal situation, Local, State Federal, Felony Misdemeanor or otherwise. Those are the standards - they are not fleixbile, they are there to proctect the fraternity not accomodate me, you or anyone else.

    I apologize for the directness of this posting. It is my opinion. I am entitled to it and no one has to agree with it, but it is mine.
     
  12. Sirius

    Sirius Registered User

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    Bruce, if you're anything, it's direct.:)
     
  13. HKTidwell

    HKTidwell Premium Member

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    There is no requirement dealing with a US Birth Certificate, Visa, a Passport. This is an moral and ethical issue surrounding a person who continues to live as a criminal in a foreign land. If a person is willing to live in a constant criminal state then they do not have the honor, respect, or regard to be a mason.

    Disabilities are allowed under dispensations, I believe. I know in other states it is and I believe Texas does too. Mental issues while they can be a disability, deals with a person who is not capable of making rational decision. While this person may have arrived here as a "little boy" from my understanding he is an adult now and is making an informed decision to disregard the law.

    Are you equating each of us to the Supreme Being? This discussion is not about whether we are all equal or not. We are all equal and I would hope not a single person here would disagree. It is about a person breaking the law of the land and evading due process.

    I believe everybody has said that if they are of good moral and ethical character(not breaking the law) they would support the person. Why should Masons take a person who knows they are continually breaking the law into their midst? In my opinion this is not only a bad idea but is detrimental to the fraternity. If a person drives to lodge for investigation and is Drunk as a skunk and then leaves the lodge drunk should we also allow them in. I think not! It is not a felony to drive drunk but it is a moral and ethical issue.


    These are my thoughts on this issue. I do not and will not support the allowance of criminals into our midst. I do not limit this to any country or origin of the person. If a person was illegally here from China, UK, Mexico Canada, or any other county I would view it the same. I understand that a person may be a good person and be here illegally but it does not change the circumstance nor their disregard for the law of the land.

    Please do not take this as an attack on you. It is meant only for conversation and to respond to the issues as I see them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2009
  14. JBD

    JBD Premium Member

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    ROFL------- Breathe - ----- ROFL
     
  15. MGM357

    MGM357 Registered User

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    Whether this is a true or made up scenario. Let's try to keep it simple. A man has to deemed worthy and well qaulified. Worthy is the measure of a person's character by his actions toward his diety, and fellow man. Well qaulified is the person good standing with laws of his country or state.

    If a non US citizen has high morals and character and wants to become a Mason, then becoming a citizen shouldn't be a problem. It would show a commitment to our country and to our Fraternity as well.
     
  16. Sirius

    Sirius Registered User

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    Well stated. I very much agree.
     
  17. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

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    JTM approves of this discussion and appreciates the epic opinions.
     
  18. scottmh59

    scottmh59 Registered User

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    if he wants to be a mason bad enough,then becoming a legal citizen is not much for him to undertake in order to become one.
    "I apologize for the directness of this posting. It is my opinion. I am entitled to it and no one has to agree with it, but it is mine.":humble:
     
  19. Bill Lins

    Bill Lins Moderating Staff Staff Member

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    Actually, the EA charge states: "As a citizen, you are to be a quiet and peaceable subject, true to your government, and just to your country; you are not to countenance disloyalty or rebellion, but patiently submit to legal authority, and conform with cheerfulness to the government of the country in which you live."

    Guys, I read that to mean you gotta be here legally- YMMV.
     
  20. Blake Bowden

    Blake Bowden Administrator Staff Member

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    That probably wasn't around in 1776...lol
     

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