Is there an alternative to the memorization?

Discussion in 'Frequently Asked Questions' started by Hasaf, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. Winter

    Winter Premium Member

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    It is an answer. You just don't like it. As much as our Order suffers for it, ODC are a way to get around the memorization. Lodges often neglect any type of proficiency examination after them.

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  2. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    Agreed.
     
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  3. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    <snicker> You sure you want to rumble with the big boys? Do you really think ya have the stones for it?
     
  4. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    While I’m not sure that sassy answers constitutes “rumbling with the big boys” it is true that memorising the work is what needs doing and that’s all there really is to it, it is harder for some than others and the lodge realises this- work hard at it and you will get there.
     
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  5. CLewey44

    CLewey44 Registered User

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    Gentlemen, many of you are, more or less, telling him to "tough it out" and "just concentrate" which may totally invalidate any medical or cognitive issues going on. Let's assume what the OP is saying is accurate and not question his work ethic or personality. Everyone is different. It's like when someone gets a cold and it really drags them down due to some underlying medical issues causing thwm to be in bed and miss work whereas some people may can get a common cold and function completely fine. Everyone's mind and bodies are different.
     
  6. CLewey44

    CLewey44 Registered User

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    But to everyone's point, snd i mnd ad bdy may apply here too. Not in jest but just simple fact.
     
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  7. Zack

    Zack Registered User

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    let's not forget the" time honored caveat" suitable proficiency. I've never heard of a proficiency being rejected
     
  8. CLewey44

    CLewey44 Registered User

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    Sadly me neither haha
     
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  9. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    We have differing thoughts as to what constitutes a sassy answer. The statement, "not an answer, sorry", doesn't quality as one of them.

    What it does quality for is an answer that reflects an attitude that only aggravates the situation. The original poster is obviously having problems living up to what is expected from him. Most all responses to his twice asked question,
    don't answer his question ...

    Which I clearly spelled out in my response:
    But, in typical fashion, each response ignores the question and concerns and go on to encourage him to meet the challenge of memorization required for him to become a full member.

    Case in point: Poster Dan Davis' response to my post...
    reflects the typically dismissive "damn the question & the member's concerns and challenges, and force fit him into the mold the assembly line process requires" attitude that you get from far too many 20+ year members, usually PMs of lodges several times over with Proficiencies mastered and holding some GL rank like PDDGM for an area. The attitude is meant to encourage but it's abusive, dismissive and more destructive than helpful. It doesn't address the question and concern, assumes the member just needs encouragement to do something that is not desired and drives members away who simply do not tolerate this type of abuse. It prescribes a solution to a assumed problem without fully diagnosing it. That's malpractice!

    So, when I read things like this:
    I recognize immediately that is not what the original poster was asking and reflects a prescription that focuses upon ignoring the problem. This is brilliantly pointed out once again here:
    Brother Lewey could not have stated it better. And statements like:

    are unbelievably shaming, guilting, and unnecessary and are out of line with "symbolic lodge" principles.

    The Candidate asked a simple question and did so in an indirect way: How can I become a full fledged member without memorizing and giving back these proficiencies?

    The responses encourage him to do the very thing he is asking NOT TO DO, and in some cases, the responses play a shame/guilt trip upon him under that façade of encouragement; dismissing the very concerns of the candidate.

    When all this was pointed out, an equally dismissive response was tendered by someone who should know better (especially with the number of years in the Craft), with a flippant "sorry", to justify and placate the dismissiveness.

    His response was not "sassy" (lively, bold, and full of spirit; cheeky). It was dismissive and unfortunately typical of those who have raised in rank, but not in spirit.
     
  10. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    Same here.
     
  11. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    I've run into this attitude myself many times before.
     
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  12. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    You are right of cause however the op has advised he would say it dosnt quite meet the criteria of disability- so what is it on others to impose that label on him? I should think not.
    Further more honestly I just skimmed the thread but I don’t think anyone said it needs to be perfectly memorised, just that he has to work at it- it’s up to his lodge to decide if the work and efforts he has put into it warrant proficiency.
     
  13. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    All good points Bro, but how many times have you had someone say that cannot memorize ? It is such a common thing which every single person I have mentored have overcome.. I think the first reaction is "You can do this, you just need to lean how"
     
  14. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    Yep. And I sense a "but" coming...
    And there it is!
    It's not the point. It never was the point. It never will be the point.

    The poster stated what he wanted. Hardly anyone listened to him; most dismissed his query and went on to encourage him to do what they thought he should do, not addressing at all what he needed - a direct answer to his question.

    I can understand why some candidates run for the door. We are supposed to be better. It is clear that we are not. They know this once they are treated this way.
    Yes, it is the typical reaction to an assumed challenge that many provide without deeper thought on what is really being communicated. It's so common that when someone says they want something else, the responses are knee-jerk prescriptive and based upon projected assumptions rather than true diagnosis.

    We can do better. We should do better. We must do better.
     
  15. Zack

    Zack Registered User

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    "I can't memorize anything."....do you know The Lord's Prayer? How about The Pledge of Alleigence ?Happy Birthday? etc,etc
     
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  16. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    I hear you, but (heehehe), but by the same token, I would say almost half of the men I have mentored said exactly the same thing.. and I hear them say things like wanting to bring their brother-in-law in who just got out of jail for drug trafficking, wanting to have their girl friend initiated. What was being communicated by the Bro was not atypical - indeed last meeting I watched a man who survived a tumor on the brain act as an officer, and that left him with similar issues. However this thread is not about you and me, it is about Bro Hasaf and I shared my thoughts here http://www.myfreemasonry.com/threads/is-there-an-alternative-to-the-memorization.30171/#post-201465 - there is almost always work around to problems..
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
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  17. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    Dosnt us encouraging the candidate to memoriseing the work answer the question?
     
  18. Keith C

    Keith C Registered User

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    It probably is no help to you, but if you move to Pennsylvania you will not have to memorize anything but the grip dialogs unless you aspire to serve as a Warden. We test proficiency based on the candidate having an understanding of the elements of the ritual, the requirements of the obligations, an understanding of the working tools and ability to demonstrate the means of recognition. not rote memorization.
     
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  19. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    No. The question regarded an alternative, not a request for encouragement.
     
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  20. Elexir

    Elexir Registered User

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    This is how it should be done.
     

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