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Is there more to Light than Knowledge?
- Thread starter pointwithinacircle2
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Brother_Steve
Premium Member
During the process of the degree you are taught the steps, signs, grip(s) and word(s) of that degree. This is the literal I speak of. There is allegory behind it but those modes for identifying yourself as a mason are what we are taught at that moment in time once we are initiated and progress through the degrees.
I hope that clears up what I meant.
crono782
Premium Member
I interpret masonic teachings of Light = Truth = Divine Knowledge. That is, a knowledge or oneness with [the mind of] God. I interpret the Light of Freemasonry as an allegory to the ways of Deity, our place in Its universe.
I've felt since the beginning that the teachings and lessons of Freemasonry were not just allegory, but multi-layered allegory. Exoteric to esoteric to humanistic to moralistic to deistic perhaps. By examining our place in the sphere of the Heavens and the mortal plane of Earth and how we fit into it all, we learn to view nature differently than the common man and this is what truly sets us apart. The moral teachings are just the means by which more chips are taken from the rough ashlar as you cannot truly gain wider gnosis of deity while in such a rude and natural state yourself.
I've felt since the beginning that the teachings and lessons of Freemasonry were not just allegory, but multi-layered allegory. Exoteric to esoteric to humanistic to moralistic to deistic perhaps. By examining our place in the sphere of the Heavens and the mortal plane of Earth and how we fit into it all, we learn to view nature differently than the common man and this is what truly sets us apart. The moral teachings are just the means by which more chips are taken from the rough ashlar as you cannot truly gain wider gnosis of deity while in such a rude and natural state yourself.
hanzosbm
Premium Member
I could not agree more.
crono782
Premium Member
Perhaps and that is actually a quite likely scenario. However, also consider that, like the Masonic degrees themselves, true knowledge and oneness is a progressive science and cannot truly be obtained or comprehended all at once. The mind, as part of man, must be continually worked and improved over time. Working it's way through understanding of more and more complex ideas reworks and shapes the mind for the better. As for the soul, understanding not specific morals per se, but the underlying conception of morals and how our mind processes and adheres to these morals, even the conception of morals as a framework crafted by Deity, is a necessary step along the way to obtaining such a wider view of the mysteries of nature and the laws which govern the universe.
Even if it is so that the multiple layers and moralizing are byproducts of other agendas at play in the past, perhaps it is not a bad thing. After all, something obtained easily is not so easily treasured. I can be told something repeatedly and it not sink it, but if I have truly worked to discover it on my own, it is something I cannot forget.
That is assuming one buys into the fabrication of something being lost in the first place.
That is assuming you can realistically apply statistical analysis to a fabrication while keeping a straight face.
Do you mean to imply that it possibly doesn't?
It helps to be a lawyer.
Yup. Agreed. Thus when one is convinced that one knows the truth, the mere mention of using statistics, going down blind alleys, and investing any time in perpending propaganda becomes just a useless exercise in keyboard whacking. You know, only a few of the many things Masons are supposed to Divest themselves of.
LOL! That's assuming in a big way that one is convinced that there is actually a mind involved in the process.
All is mind
dfreybur
Premium Member
Before the Scientific Method was devised, one of the problems is that advancement of material knowledge had plateaued because discoveries were kept secret. Secret knowledge was lost across generations even when it was leaked to others. The leaked knowledge just took longer to be lost. So science exploited a human frailty that competes with the desire for secrecy - The desire for fame. In science credit for a discovery went to the first to publish. Once published, discoveries were no longer lost. Material knowledge left its plateau and has been advancing ever since.
When grand lodge Freemasonry was invented in 1717 the formal codification of the Scientific Method was still new. Optimism abounded that the principles that worked so well in the material realm would work as well in other realms.
Freemasonry was called a progressive moral science. I suggest that the expectation at the time was that morality in general across the world would increase through improved knowledge and the application of that knowledge. Has this happened? Certainly not at the same rate as happened in material knowledge but I do suggest we have seen progress.
Understand that complaints about moral decay since the previous generation are so universal to humanity they appear in works as ancient as the Illiad and the Odyssey. When considering moral advancement across time we need to understand that most of us have this bias to see our times as worse that before, and we need to move past that bias.
For a while the number and size of wars kept increasing but with the invention of nuclear weapons that trend stopped and reversed. The world definitely still sees wars but there size remains small. I wonder of historical demographic studies would even show that the percentage of the world covered by wars has been shrinking. With the world entering a new set of Crusades let's hope they don't last the centuries that the previous Crusades did.
More and more of the world is being covered by republics-in-fact and less and less of the world is being covered by republics-in-name-only. More and more of the world is being covered by active trade. Historically when republics-in-fact engage in active trade the chances of wars decrease.
Economic booms and busts continue about once per decade, but at the worst point at the bottom of each cycle the percentage of humanity starving ratchets down. With another couple of cycles and with globalization of trade we may even see the absolute number of people starving down down.
In western secular civilization various forms of equal treatment continue to advance, as usual over the objections of previous generations. One topic at a time. Religious attendance continues low in countries with any sort of official religion, continues high in countries with high degrees of separation of church and state.
Moral progress has been at a much slower rate than material progress, but it has been happening. Often with Masons leading the way as dictatorships give way to republics, as peace prevails after wars.
As with material progress, I am sure that moral and spiritual advances have been lost over the millennia. Calling Freemasonry a progressive moral science and keeping our service events and charities publicized helps keep new advances going.
It appears that if I am to have any peace in the world I shall have to rewrite my definition of the term "Scientific Method". My complaint about this phrase is that people talk about the time "before scientific method". This irks me because according to my definition such a time never existed. However, after reading Brother Doug's thoughtful explication on the subject, I see where my thinking has diverged from the thoughts of other learned men on the subject. It appears that my analysis has undervalued the factor of Independent Verification.
Throughout all history there have been men whose mental processes were clouded by fear, ignorance, and superstition. When these men wield power they attack those who dare to speak any truth that is not an echo of their own thoughts. In such times great thinkers have had to hide their knowledge to avoid being imprisoned or put to death. It is only when men can discuss their thoughts and investigations without fear of reprisal that true progress is made. If there is anyplace on Earth where men cannot speak freely there is still work to do.
Throughout all history there have been men whose mental processes were clouded by fear, ignorance, and superstition. When these men wield power they attack those who dare to speak any truth that is not an echo of their own thoughts. In such times great thinkers have had to hide their knowledge to avoid being imprisoned or put to death. It is only when men can discuss their thoughts and investigations without fear of reprisal that true progress is made. If there is anyplace on Earth where men cannot speak freely there is still work to do.
dfreybur
Premium Member
Capitalized does matter. The word for science was around a long time before the late Renaissance but what it meant changed. Before it was the quest for knowledge. After it was a formalized process, a machine that grinds on knowledge rejecting the false.
Review the literature, formulate a hypothesis, make predictions, devise experiments, review the data. Reject any hypothesis that fails to match the data. Refine any hypothesis that does match the data. These are the tactical steps that are taught to elementary school kids. There is also a strategy layer.
Publish results. First to publish gets credit. Once a hypothesis has been widely confirmed by experiment, start calling it a theory instead. This level both exploits the human frailty to want glory to pull secret knowledge out into the public (as patents exploit the human frailty of greed to pull secret inventions out into the public). It also establishes a sliding scale of degree of verification. These are the strategic steps that so often get misunderstood by the public.
How science gets applied to morality is less clear than with chemistry. But consider the evolution of ideas about prisons over time.
dfreybur
Premium Member
Correction is falsification. There are degrees of falsification. There is utter rejection like the philostigon theory. There is large correction like the transition from Newton/Galilean absolute location physics to Einstein/Lorenz special relative location physics. There is detailed correction like including special relativity in electron orbitals to explain the properties of very high atomic number metals.
The cholesterol theory has never had the weight of evidence in favor of it that the philostigon theory did.
Warrior1256
Site Benefactor
Very Good!!!!