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Knights of Columbus

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gortex6

Guest
I asked a catholic eucharistic minister this and he checked with his monsenier; he said it will not result in excommunication or interdict.

I think some of this ignorance is because they cunfuse us with the Grand Orient and their hidden war with the vatican. This is America not Europe. Keep in mind that they admit athiests and transvestites.
 
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Curtis Wilson

Registered User
Previous posting is correct, you will not get excommunicated as a result of joining Freemasonry. However in Catholic Canon Law, there is no distinction to European Masonry or American Masonry and at the Vatican II council held in 1968, the current Pope, then a Cardinal, wrote an interpretation of the Law in that even though the words Freemason had been removed, the Catholic should not join Freemasons as it is a severe sin and as a Mason, one cannot take the Catholic Sacraments such as the Eucharist or even last rites. Its about as severe as you can get without being excommunicated.

If you read my postings in that forum, I believe most of the anti-Masonry came about for Political reasons with England breaking away from the Church of England. As a Catholic, I can't just dismiss the argument. I had hopes of joining the Lodge of Research with a paper on the subject, and even had aspirations of contacting our Cardinal or even the Vatican for review. But the more I read about the issue, I feel it would be a waste of time, at least for the second part.

We all need to be knowledgeable on the subject, because I know I've been asked several times about religion and Masonry.
 
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gortex6

Guest
Previous posting is correct, you will not get excommunicated as a result of joining Freemasonry. However in Catholic Canon Law, there is no distinction to European Masonry or American Masonry and at the Vatican II council held in 1968, the current Pope, then a Cardinal, wrote an interpretation of the Law in that even though the words Freemason had been removed, the Catholic should not join Freemasons as it is a severe sin and as a Mason, one cannot take the Catholic Sacraments such as the Eucharist or even last rites. Its about as severe as you can get without being excommunicated.

If you read my postings in that forum, I believe most of the anti-Masonry came about for Political reasons with England breaking away from the Church of England. As a Catholic, I can't just dismiss the argument. I had hopes of joining the Lodge of Research with a paper on the subject, and even had aspirations of contacting our Cardinal or even the Vatican for review. But the more I read about the issue, I feel it would be a waste of time, at least for the second part.

We all need to be knowledgeable on the subject, because I know I've been asked several times about religion and Masonry.

I am baptized catholic as well. Funny how they do not excommunicate pedifile priests or refuse sacraments to pro-abortion catholic politicians. The day they refuse me sacrament for being a just and upright man is the last day I ever walk into a catholic church.

At one time catholics were barred from joining he YMCA for the same stupid reasons :rolleyes:
 
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Brother Secretary

Guest
Don't quote me on this, but as I understand it the main point of contention of the modern Catholic Church with Masonry is the fact that we promise to keep secret that to which we're obligated and a tenet of Catholicism is that there is nothing you keep secret from your priest.

Now that having been said KoC as I understand it is basically Catholic rectified Freemasonry. As well, they like to trace their mystic roots back to a Catholic order of Warrior Monks during the Crusades called the Knights Hospitlar (Knights of the Hospital) who just so happened to be garrisoned at a the hospital in Jerusalem at the same time another Catholic order of Warrior Monks were garrisoned at the al-Aqsa Mosque, built upon the site of the Temple of Solomon. They were called The Poor Fellows Soldiery of Jesus Christ and of the Temple of Solomon or, for short, the Knights of the Temple or Knights Templar.
 
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RJS

Guest
Wasn't a lot of Templar possessions given to the Hospitlars after Friday the 13th went down?
 
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gortex6

Guest
As well, they like to trace their mystic roots back to a Catholic order of Warrior Monks during the Crusades called the Knights Hospitlar (Knights of the Hospital) who just so happened to be garrisoned at a the hospital in Jerusalem at the same time another Catholic order of Warrior Monks were garrisoned at the al-Aqsa Mosque, built upon the site of the Temple of Solomon. They were called The Poor Fellows Soldiery of Jesus Christ and of the Temple of Solomon or, for short, the Knights of the Temple or Knights Templar.

Nope. The knights hospitlars exist today as the Soverign Military Order of Malta and are not to be confused with knights of malta on york rite commandery. This is a very "interesting" catholic military order of global aristocracy. These guys have their own internationaly recognized sovereignty and thus have dual citizenship from their order(they issue their own passports). Their GM ranks as head of state, ecclesiastic ranking as cardinal and secular ranking as prince. Their higher grades of knights mush be able to display a coat of arms dating three centuries in unbroken succession from pop to son. Their members include George H W Bush, Ruppert Murdoch, Tony Blair, and the late William F Buckley among others. Please tell me if I am wrong; I stand to be corrected......
 
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gortex6

Guest
Here is another interesting military order of catholic knights that "enjoys protection under canon law".
Equestrian Order of the Holy Sepulchre

knights.jpg
 
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Brother Secretary

Guest
I said, "Don't quote me on it." :D source was a DVD "documentary" from netflix called: The Knights Templar I don't recall the director or other details
 

masonicknight

Registered User
For an interesting read try Faith and Fraternalism. It is the history of the Knights of Columbus. Interesting points are taken that in more then one occasion it required the help of Masonic Grand Lodges to solve some problems. The Order itself while requiring its members to be Catholic is not actually a part of the Church itself. It does not reap any benefit from the church faithful but only from its members who contribute graciously to it. A first degree Knight may only vote on those things that have nothing to do with the Orders Insurance programs. The second and third degree work is done more in line with that of Scottish Rite as a class setting. The first is done at the Chapter one has petitioned to. The meetings are more or less very informal compared to Masonic. Kind of feels like you have missed out on something by not having a ritual used in opening and closing.

Odd Fellows Initiatory Degree allows you to participate in the lodge and to vote. First through Third Degrees allow for participation as an officer. Again, they work it all as groups, but the first all participate while the others have minimal participation and is done as a class
 

rev.jake

Registered User
The mission of the IOOF is closer to the BPOE. The officer placement in the BPOE is identical to that of the Masons. It was one of the first things that struck me as a new Elk.

When you get down to it, why change what works? The cross fertilization of ideas and mores is what makes the world work. We are more alike than most realize. The BPOE was originally a society to support destitute widows and orphans of Vaudeville actors.

Jake
 

cambridgemason

Premium Member
Premium Member
There was at one time over a thousand different fraternal organizations that existed in the world, many with ties to religious groups and churchs. Groups such as the Knights of Columbus, which was started by a Priest for members that could not be members of FreeMasonry. The Knights of Honor, Knights of Malta(seperate from KT), Knights of St. George, Knights of St. John, there was the Redman, IOOF,(within that was the UOOF, womans groups, chapters, military style groups like the KT, youth groups), Sons of Temperance, Knights of Pythias, Orangeman, Daugthers of Malta, Woodman of the World, JR and SR order of Mechanics, Order of Owls, Elks, Moose, Lions, Eagles, Anciet order of Hibernias, AOUW, Imporved order of Heptasophs, Knights of Ladies of Honor, Royal Arcanum, Order of the Scottish Clans, N.E.O., Pythian Sisters,United order of Pilgrim Fathers, GAR, Daughters of the Confederate(Veterans?), Knights of Labor, NEOP, Temperance Order, etc etc etc. Back, I believe the 1920ish's the Catholic Church printed a book listing all the fraternal organizations that at the time existed, with also a small description of them all, there were thousands of groups. A copy of this book was supposly sent to every rectory.
 
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masonicknight

Registered User
The Knights of Columba is a separate group.

Knights of Columbus was started by a Catholic Priest named McGiveney, whom the Order has been working to get Saint status for, with the idea that it would help parish men in times of need. It eventually became a Fraternal Benefit Society in that it helped its members to plan for the future. It is not only the largest Lay Mens Order of the Church it is also one of the strongest Insurance programs that is available. While buying insurance is not required of its members it is encouraged to plan for the future.

It original aim was to help immigrants that had just arrived and were having difficulty assimilating to the US.
 

ess1113

Premium Member
Great discussion about the K of C and Freemasonry.
As a practicing and baptized Catholic I have a unique perspective on both along with the conflicts between the Roman Catholic Church in my area and my blue lodge.

Too lengthy to provide all the details but since October 2010 it has been a non-stop headache. Starting with a phone call from the Grand Knight of the local K of C council. Of course he got my cell phone number from the parochial school directory so thats been subsequently removed. The next phone call was from the parish priest, who admitted that he knew nothing about Freemasonry and had no idea why the Church disapproves but he knew I shouldnt belong. We agreed to disagree after an 90 minute conversation. I refused to meet in his office as that was a hostile environment. He subsequently refused to meet for lunch and absolutely refused to meet at the lodge so I could show him around and explain the symbolism. When asked how he knows I am a Mason, he told me that some parishoners had googled my name and it showed my involvement.

This has been followed with anonymous notes left on my truck. My truck has masonic stickers on it along with a Catholic War Veterans sticker so I am sure that kills the offended members. A year ago my wife was called into the Catholic school office where she works and has the diocesian lawyer instruct her to remove the blue slipper sticker off her truck or be terminated. She removed it as she loves her job and my daughter enjoys the school she attends.

This past December the school principal called one evening and asked if I could meet her at the school. Thinking she needed something fixed, I brought my tool box. She very bluntly told me that the parish priest had directed her to get information on my Masonic involvement. I refused to give her any information. Although we remain speaking acquaintences we are far from friends. It is also ironic that several parents have approached the school board to have my wife removed from teaching since her husband is a Mason and they are afraid that I will try to convert them. Convert them to what is a total mystery to me. The most vocal parent actually took her son to the Scottish Rite learning center for help with dyslexia this past year. She remains blissfully ignorant that the clinic is a Masonic charity.

Summary: the US Catholic Church is not friendly with Freemasonry. I am always at a loss to understand or explain why this division exists. I personally believe that what may have happened hundreds of years ago has little to no bearing on affairs today but that is a moot argument.
I love my Church and remain a devoted Catholic but its been difficult. Currently the US Conference of Catholic Bishops have initiated investigations on the Boy Scouts of America and the Girl Scouts of America alleging that they are counter to Catholicism. The allegation is that they do not require a belief in Jesus Christ as dictated by the Church. The same traits are shared by Alcoholics Anonymous and many organizations.
Galileo was excomunicated from the Catholic Church for his beliefs that the earth revolved around the sun. For 350 years he remained banned from the Church until 1992 when Pope John Paul II issue a statement admitting error on the part of the Church. I believe that someday, not in my lifetime, this will be the same for Freemasonry. I may not live to see it but I will pray for it to happen and I will remain a devoted Roman Catholic and a dedicated Freemason, Scottish Rite Mason, York Rite Mason, and National Sojourner.
 
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BryanMaloney

Premium Member
The priest who founded the K of C openly meant it to be a fraternal/mutual aid organization for Catholics to join instead of Freemasonry, both because the Church opposed Freemasonry and Catholics were routinely excluded from many aspects of public life in the USA at the time. (In Boston, there were riots over whether or not to allow Catholic children to use non-Protestant Bibles in school--back when public schools permitted Bibles). There was a great deal of anti-Catholic sentiment in the USA (see the book "How the Irish Became White" for some idea of this, from an Irish standpoint). Thus, the K of C filled a niche, and resemblances would be expected.
 

bullrack33

Premium Member
Very interesting discussion! The IOOF is something I had wondered about for many years. My father and Grandfather were both members back home in Eastern Ky. I have often wondered though, why my father never became a Mason even though my Grandfather was. Maybe they had too much time together at IOOF meetings? :19:
 
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