Leadership and Religious Literacy in Freemasonry

Discussion in 'Masonic Blogs' started by My Freemasonry, Feb 10, 2016.

  1. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    It seems to me to be a matter of principle: Is Masonry universal or is it not?
     
  2. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    Yes it is. we use generic terms when speaking of deity. Our stories are just that...... stories! IF you dont like it dont join. Nothing is tuly universal. someone some where will not like it. O+ blood is the unverisal blood but i bet someone is illergic to it somewhere
     
  3. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    The more I learn of Masonry, the less likely that seems. For example, it is possible to make a reasonable case that the death of James the Just (brother of Jesus) is concealed in the story of Hiram. This could indicate Masonic connection to an alternative form of Christianity.

    Further, the use in higher degrees of a multitude of Jewish names - including what are conventionally regarded as titles for the God of the Jews - could be seen as contrary to Anderson's proposition that it is "expedient only to oblige them to that Religion in which all Men agree, leaving their particular Opinions to themselves".
     
  4. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    If Freemasonry is not a religion (i believe it is not, and I am going to assume James that you agree) then how is it that in incorporating an earlier tradition, it is no longer universal? The tradition is just as much cultural as religious ,and for me, the "tradition" is the building of KST, but its a metophor and could have been about building the pyramids or Westminster, but as I've said before, Freemasonry and indeed fraternalism in general has a bias for the old and the romantic - that's why we see Noah in earlier versions of the Craft or the Garden of Eden in the Free Gardiners, Robin Hood in the Forrester (I think it was that order).. Me, I think Religion is a function of address; if I was born in Mecca, I'd probably be a Muslim, in Tibet, probably Buddhist, but because I was born where I was, I'm Christian.. Freemasonry has strong Platonic overtones, that doesn't make us all Athenian. Some people would say the see Mithras, or other traditions, even Druidism (another Fraternal organization in the context of the old and romantic) , in Freemasonry, all have been fused into something Masonic and universal - and I see no tension in that. We're just a modern continuation of what has gone before. If you find tension in that, you've probably got tension with the past ?

    So yes, Freemasonry is universal. If you think not, then you have to ask yourself why. Me, I've got a good understanding of why our Order does not admit women, atheists, felons, children etc yet can still describe it as universal.
     
  5. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    (I wrote the above while you were writing yours James).

    You can see all sorts of things in Freemasonry, that's why it is universal and that is why it is subjective and that is why it has survived and people love it today.
     
  6. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    Deuteronomy 26:17-19 "The LORD has today declared you to be His people, a treasured possession, as He promised you, and that you should keep all His commandments; and that He will set you high above all nations which He has made

    Leaving aside the provenance of the Jewish scriptures, how universal is that religious tradition?

    An elite above all nations, is that the Masonic tradition of universal brotherhood?

    It is time to move on.
     
  7. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    Where does that quote appear in Masonic Ritual ? It doesnt. The quote is extrinsecus.

    We are told to observe the VSL, but does that mean I must not eat Shellfish and I must kill Amalekites or sow salt into the fields of certain tribes ? No, Freemasonry leaves my religious beliefs to me, and I certainly do not see the modern Craft aligned with a single religious tradition.
     
  8. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    I cannot recall any Masonic ritual that does not draw directly upon the Judao-Christian scriptures.
     
  9. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    James, to me it seems you are more interested in the wrapping paper than the Gift it covers.. The Gift is Universal, regardless of how you wrap it.
    However, I do know of a Rite that follows a more Sumerian/Babylonian style if you're truly uncomfortable in lodge.
     
  10. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    How much of the Gift remains if the genuine secrets are lost?


    I am interested. Will you say more?
     
  11. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    You divert the subject at every turn. First, it's the Hebrew trappings, then you turn the conversation to lost secrets. It sounds to me like you just don't like Masonry.
    As for the other, research AAAR. It's a very small group.
     
  12. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    I thought you might have detected the strong Sumerian influence in Holy Royal Arch and in Rosecroix - and arguably pre-Sumerian in Royal Ark Mariners.
     
  13. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    There are influences in all of our rites. Mystery traditions are like mushrooms, weaving unseen threads through the roots if societal trees.
     
  14. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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  15. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    In unaware of any legitimate obedience which recognizes this "rite."
     
  16. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    Doesn't sound clandestine to me - because "but at the same time was uniquely independent of the Masonic institution"

    I think I will stick with regular bodies though..
     
  17. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    There is no need for "recognition" as it is a completely separate path of introspection and has nothing to do with Freemasonry.
     
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  18. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    Thanks jc

    Sent from my LG-D415 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app
     
  19. pointwithinacircle2

    pointwithinacircle2 Rapscallion Premium Member

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    There are two Freemasonry's. One is universal because it is a science. The other is not universal because it is a morality and morality varies from group to group.
     
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  20. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    That raises 2 issues in my mind:

    - where is the universal Masonic Science practiced?
    - since the Masonic morality is concealed by allegory, I do not doubt that the practice varies considerably from group to group
     

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