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Masonic Law Question

In your Opinion, does this give the Lodge the ability to hold people accountable?

  • Yes, If so explain the extent of the punishment that can be handed out.

    Votes: 29 78.4%
  • No, punishment can only be given by Grand Lodge. State where this is found.

    Votes: 8 21.6%

  • Total voters
    37

rhitland

Founding Member
Premium Member
Where is this covered? I know in the GL Law it discusses this being done by the Grand Master but what gives the WM the power to do this? Other then the WM charge to keep peace and harmony? Is there anything? If not what stops the WM from expelling a mason for a period of time until charges or appeal to the GL can be filed?

This is one in GL law backed up by our By-laws at 148 which are just about the same as everywhere.
By:Laws state that the rules of conducting bus. shall be a snearly possible the same as those prescribed for the Grand Lodge, and blah blah blah

So if you go to Chapter 20 Title 1 you will find all you can do as WM and as GM.
 

Nate Riley

Premium Member
The punishment that can be handed out, is the brother who is being disruptive can be asked to leave the lodge room. This in itself should be enough to convince a true brother that he has acted out of line and he should be embarrased by this fact. We are after all supposed to be brothers, and a step above regular society. If he is truly a mason, then he should act like one and Use the Compasses to get himself in line.

I agree, being called out in Lodge or in any other venue, public or private, should be considered severe punishment. In Masonry, like in my religious life, my conscience punishes me enough when I get out of line. We shouldn't have to beat our brethern with a cane to cause them to come inline with our principle tenets. I appreciate the fact that there are those who enjoy debating the laws, but personally I take everything the laws, the teachings (including charges) and even the unspoken/unwritten rules of masonic conduct to heart.

I don't know why, but I was lead to post this as part of my response - "The Character of a Freemason"

“A real Freemason is distinguished from the rest of Mankind by the uniform unrestricted rectitude of his conduct. Other men are honest in fear of punishment which the law might inflict; they are religious in expectation of being rewarded, or in dread of the devil in the next world. A Freemason would be just if there were no laws, human or divine except those written in his heart by the finger of his Creator. In every climate, under every system of religion, he is the same. He kneels before the Universal Throne of God in gratitude for the blessing he has received and humble solicitation for his future protection. He venerates the good men of all religions. He gives no offense, because he does not choose to be offended. He contracts no debts which he is certain he cannot discharge, because he is honest upon principle." - The Farmers Almanac, 1823
 

Nate Riley

Premium Member
Where is this covered? I know in the GL Law it discusses this being done by the Grand Master but what gives the WM the power to do this? Other then the WM charge to keep peace and harmony? Is there anything? If not what stops the WM from expelling a mason for a period of time until charges or appeal to the GL can be filed?

Think about the lesser lights.

That may be stupid response to your questions, since I'm not well versed in Masonic Law. But I am into the degrees and esoteric work.
 

rhitland

Founding Member
Premium Member
No you are right Nate the lesser lights explain it all and art 283 back it up basically saying the WM can do as he pleases but three can protest his decision to GL for checks and balances.

Also Brother Nate I dought any of us disagree with your point that we should govern ourselves and most all Mason do this very thing but if it were the case everytime how would these laws come about? They did not just make them up for fun these are created from real happenings as sad as that is and enough times for someone to propose a law and get it passed as hard as that is, so for us to try and maintain peace and harmony and not know the law that governs us inside and out would be to get caught with our pants down when it is needed. I wish we could all just get along and laws where not needed but such is not the case niether do I know it will ever be?
 

js4253

Premium Member
Premium Member
Thank God the two Lodges that I belong to don't have any blatant trouble makers. I,m not saying we don't have disagreements, they are just not severe.
 

Wingnut

Premium Member
Masons are men, men are weak and while striving for a perfect ashlar most of us fall short. The law just makes order out of chaos and helps us keep our passions within due bounds.
 

Chaplin the Elder

Registered User
I voted NO. Punishment can only really be administered after a trial, which I read as falling under GL. The WM can correct the situation and have the brother escorted out to restore peace and harmony. Something more permanent would require a trial I do believe.

However, prior to trial the matter, as far as I know, has to be brought before the lodge's Committee of Reconciliation (read Grievance) to see if it can be resolved at the Lodge level. I refer to article 498. See also Art. 512 sub (c) and Art 513.

Having read the above I would have to say that punishment is within the realm of the Lodge under Art. 513, sub(a) with the approval of GL and falls to the GL under Art. 513 Sub (b).

This, of course, is if allegations are filed in the first place (see Art. 512 sub (a) through (e).

Just MHO
 

cale

Registered User
Ah there in lies the rub. The law as stated seems to allow some type of rebuke and I think minor missconduct should not go unquestioned, but not to the grand lodge.
It seems to me it is like taking a speeding ticket to the state supreme court.
 

jonesvilletexas

Premium Member
When the W:.M:. raps the gavel, he takes charge of his Lodge, demanding silence in the room and requiring every Brother to be properly clothed and seated. Any Brother who disobeys the gavel may be reprimanded by the W:.M:. and/or may be ordered from the room.
 

Gerald.Harris

Premium Member
Premium Member
When the W:.M:. raps the gavel, he takes charge of his Lodge, demanding silence in the room and requiring every Brother to be properly clothed and seated. Any Brother who disobeys the gavel may be reprimanded by the W:.M:. and/or may be ordered from the room.

This is the way it is supposed to be my Brother, I think most brothers know this, and will definately abide by the sound of the gavel. I can honestly say that in my 30 plus years of being a Mason, I have only heard and seen the gavel used no more than three or four times
 

MGM357

Registered User
the part that states "you are not to hold private commitees." Does this also mean not to meet outside the Lodge to discuss any business new or old?
 

Gerald.Harris

Premium Member
Premium Member
the part that states "you are not to hold private commitees." Does this also mean not to meet outside the Lodge to discuss any business new or old?

I certainly don't take it to mean that we can not talk outside the lodge of our business. I believe that it means the WM will appoint all committies, and that we do not need the confusion in our lodge rooms of several groups or committies ( official and otherwise) busy talking on any given subject.
During the normal course of business, any brother can give his opinion on a subject during the discussion phase once a motion is made, seconded, and on the floor.
 

Wingnut

Premium Member
I always took it to mean not to have sidebar conversations while lodge is in session. When someone else has the floor they have the floor. Full text below...

1. OF BEHAVIOR IN THE LODGE WHILE CONSTITUTED. You are not to hold private committees, or separate conversations, without leave from the Master, nor to talk of anything impertinent or unseemly, nor interrupt the Master or Wardens, or any Brother speaking to the Master; nor behave yourself ludicrously or jestingly while the Lodge is engaged in what is serious and solemn; not use any unbecoming language upon any pretense whatsoever; but to pay due reverence to your Master, Wardens and Fellows, and put them to worship.
 

owls84

Moderator
Premium Member
I certainly don't take it to mean that we can not talk outside the lodge of our business. I believe that it means the WM will appoint all committies, and that we do not need the confusion in our lodge rooms of several groups or committies ( official and otherwise) busy talking on any given subject.
During the normal course of business, any brother can give his opinion on a subject during the discussion phase once a motion is made, seconded, and on the floor.

I agree with this. As Brother Wyndell just pointed out that paragraph is speaking of while in Lodge. Thats my opinion though, I have been know to be wrong.
 

Gerald.Harris

Premium Member
Premium Member
I agree with this. As Brother Wyndell just pointed out that paragraph is speaking of while in Lodge. Thats my opinion though, I have been know to be wrong.

Brother Josh, I would venture to say that we have all been wrong a time or two. I for one find it intresting how my own opinion can change after listening to a great discussion and hearing several views on any subject.
 

Scotty32

Registered User
When the W:.M:. raps the gavel, he takes charge of his Lodge, demanding silence in the room and requiring every Brother to be properly clothed and seated. Any Brother who disobeys the gavel may be reprimanded by the W:.M:. and/or may be ordered from the room.
----You said it right on



I am sorry to say this, but the master & I have had to gavel multiple times during a recent meeting due to the 'sideline conversation' & a sec. pro-temp trying to take the hat. The master gaveled once, & then I did while I was up speaking. The time I did I was so frustrated that I almost broke the granite gavel base & gavel. It echoed throughout the lodge room & you could have heard a gnat fart in there afterward.

Take this from a Warden,
While I do not mind silent whispers ( silent meaning VERY silent, you know like "what date was that?'' or "What did he say was the petitioners name?", etc...) about the topic at hand during a meeting, just do not do it. Its rude & disruptive & I do not care how many years you have been doing otherwise.
We should not do that during a meeting & you WILL NOT do that in my lodge.
 
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