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Non active members wearing rings etc

Dontrell Stroman

Premium Member
Bro cook, although we all may have slight changes in our rituals I believe what makes a man a free mason is universal. I won't say over the forum what it is though.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
Next question : why wouldn't he be a mason for life if he were not kicked out the craft ?
He might be a Mason for life, but if he is no longer a member of the society, regardless of the reason why, he is no longer a Freemason. And the reverse is also true. To be a Freemason, as in, a paid up member, doesn't even require being a Mason.
He did take the same solem ob as other masons. Does being a mason only mean paying your dues ?
No, but being a Freemason does.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
Coach why do you do that? You know that when a brother says mason he means freemason.....
Yes, I do know there are those who use these two words synonymously and I understand that such use is common throughout the Society.

Why? Because there are Brothers who are confused by their synonymous use. It, pointing this out, truly does help those who do not accept the two are the same and who wish to gain clarity on the differences. It also explains much of the inconsistencies thinking men see within the Society. It helps them make sense of what doesn't make sense when the two words are used synonymously. It also helps bring clarity to a very confused world of inconsistent fabrication.

So, when the openings present themselves, I share. I know from consistent back channel chatter that there are many Brothers who truly appreciate when I point this out. It helps them make sense of things that make no sense when the two are use synonymously and they are better for it. They begin to see the Fraternity in a different Light and they are better for it.

Yes, I know that there are those who are annoyed by it. That is their challenge to overcome. The are not the one's that I support.
As far as I know, he's the only one who insists that Masons and Freemasons are different things.
"As far as I know" being the operative phrase that supports your very strong foundation.

For your consideration: I do not insist. I convey. There is a huge difference. I learned the lessons of the FC. If you haven't learned to distinguish the columns, and what they allude to, then you shall not know how to distinguish them and accept them as no different from each other. And you shall build with that understanding and suffer from the results of your assumptions.

Here is a question back to both of you. What's the payoff for your insisting upon seeing no difference and disparaging those who do see differences? I know mine. Do you know yours?
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
As far as I know, he's the only one who insists that Masons and Freemasons are different things.
BTW - I see that you are "P.V.M. Valley of Rochester, A&ASR". I shall be doing a 6 hour workshop in your area on Sept. 19, 2015, from 8am to 4pm. Perhaps you might want further light on this subject which may further you understanding as to "why?".

Please contact Brother Rich Bennett should you want more information on this Uncommon Masonic Education event.
 

Dontrell Stroman

Premium Member
Bro. Coach with all due respects, you still have yet to explain the difference between a Mason and a Freemason. I really would like to know the difference if there is a difference. From my understanding, I've heard freemasons call each other masons. I'm not talking about in ancient times, I'm asking about the use of the two words and how they differ in meanings. I believe calling someone a mason or freemason has the same context unless your talking about a trade. (Brick mason) although I prefer to call myself a freemason I have said I'm a Mason to shorten a conversation up.
 
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Dontrell Stroman

Premium Member
BTW - I see that you are "P.V.M. Valley of Rochester, A&ASR". I shall be doing a 6 hour workshop in your area on Sept. 19, 2015, from 8am to 4pm. Perhaps you might want further light on this subject which may further you understanding as to "why?".

Please contact Brother Rich Bennett should you want more information on this Uncommon Masonic Education event.
I could see why it would be important to distinguish yourself when talking to non freemasons, but when talking about the craft with brothers that are freemasons, where does it say that if a brother is no longer active, he's not a freemason anymore, he's just a mason ?
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
Bro. Coach with all due respects, you still have yet to explain the difference between a Mason and a Freemason.
Thanks for being respectful my good Brother. I have done this very thing ad nausea; as in "explain the difference(s)". Perhaps not in this thread in depth, but in so many other venues that I've lost count.

Here are but a few of the links that could bring you up to speed on the subject, if studied:
http://buildinghiram.blogspot.com/2014/12/the-craft-unmasked-book-preview-chapter.html
http://buildinghiram.blogspot.com/2014/11/the-craft-unmasked-book-preview-chapter.html
http://buildinghiram.blogspot.com/2014/05/the-coaches-coach-drawing-distinctions.html
http://buildinghiram.blogspot.com/2014/01/the-coaches-coach-drawing-distinctions.html
http://buildinghiram.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-coaches-coach-freemasonry-masonry.html
http://buildinghiram.blogspot.com/2011/04/new-video-coaches-coach-building.html

I hope you find them of interest.

BTW - I have also done so within some of the books that I have published, fully footnoted with source materials, should you be so inclined.

I really would like to know the difference if there is a difference. From my understanding, I've heard freemasons call each other masons. I'm not talking about in ancient times, I'm asking about the use of the two words and how they differ in meanings. I believe calling someone a mason or freemason has the same context unless your talking about a trade. (Brick mason) although I prefer to call myself a freemason I have said I'm a Mason to shorten a conversation up.
Thanks. One of the better ways to understand the difference is to begin by understanding that the word "Freemason" does not have the same meaning as "Free Mason" or "Free-mason"; this has been erroneously shared by conjecturing researchers for the past 300 years. The word "freemason" was fabricated around the time of the creation of the Grand Lodge Era. It meant, for all intents and purposes, "member of the society of 'Free & Accept Masons'". The Society was a Total Immersion Role Playing Society that used theater as entertainment for dinner parties where such entertainment, along with food, drink and song, were provided.

The society used for its source materials for its plays/skits the literature of the Stonecrafting guilds and then shaped them toward their own ends, which when put under a close scrutiny, clearly shows that the Society does in no way practice a speculative version of Stonecraft, aka "Operative Practice". Any resemblance between the two is purely due to the masterful application of theatrical practice.

Should you want to research this further, you can find ample information with chapter III. Comparing the Crafts, found within the book "The Craft Unmasked! The uncommon Origin of Freemasonry and its Practice". Yes, I am its author.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
I could see why it would be important to distinguish yourself when talking to non freemasons, but when talking about the craft with brothers that are freemasons, where does it say that if a brother is no longer active, he's not a freemason anymore, he's just a mason ?
I was clear when I used the word "might":

He might be a Mason for life, but if he is no longer a member of the society, regardless of the reason why, he is no longer a Freemason. And the reverse is also true. To be a Freemason, as in, a paid up member, doesn't even require being a Mason.

I do not believe I used the words "no longer active" in my response. That being said, Members are Freemasons. That's how it works.

BTW - I would never use the phrase "he's just a mason", unless it was in jest with Brothers who understood I was actually complimenting the man. As in, "What does he know, he's just a mason", indicating that you better listen to him for he is doing the Work that warrants respect for his Words.
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
Question : So if a mason only pays his dues and never attendeds a meeting do you believe it's okay for him to wear his ring ?

If a brother only pays his dues and never attends, I absolutely favor him wearing his ring.

Next question : why wouldn't he be a mason for life if he were not kicked out the craft ? He did take the same solem ob as other masons. Does being a mason only mean paying your dues ?

One of our obligations is to support our lodge. It's not our only obligation.
 

pointwithinacircle2

Rapscallion
Premium Member
Coach why do you do that? You know that when a brother says mason he means freemason.....
As far as I know, he's the only one who insists that Masons and Freemasons are different things.
Gentlemen! Specificity of Language! (That, for those who do not know, is a reference to {IMHO} a rather good movie called "The Giver")

Regardless of your knowledge of obscure movie quotes, there is the issue of the casual VS the specific use of language. Words mean specific things, this is why we have dictionaries. Sure, in everyday life we toss words around in nonspecific ways and just expect everyone to understand. And generally that is good enough. (If I say "I love hot dogs" and "I love my wife" I just expect you to understand the difference) But when communicating subtle or nuanced concepts using the correct word, and understanding it's specific definition, can be vital to understanding.

What I get from John's insistence on specific definition and word use is that he sees several kinds of Masons out there. Perhaps he even thinks that it might be personally useful to some Masons to ask themselves which category they are in or want to be in. As far as Specificity of Language goes, I vote in favor.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
Gentlemen! Specificity of Language! (That, for those who do not know, is a reference to {IMHO} a rather good movie called "The Giver")

Regardless of your knowledge of obscure movie quotes, there is the issue of the casual VS the specific use of language. Words mean specific things, this is why we have dictionaries. Sure, in everyday life we toss words around in nonspecific ways and just expect everyone to understand. And generally that is good enough. (If I say "I love hot dogs" and "I love my wife" I just expect you to understand the difference) But when communicating subtle or nuanced concepts using the correct word, and understanding it's specific definition, can be vital to understanding.

What I get from John's insistence on specific definition and word use is that he sees several kinds of Masons out there. Perhaps he even thinks that it might be personally useful to some Masons to ask themselves which category they are in or want to be in. As far as Specificity of Language goes, I vote in favor.
I JUST saw that movie and LOVED IT! I love the emphasis it had on Specificity of Language. I also love the way it showed how some words were proscribed out of the language to control the masses. Thought-Provoking for sure!

And yes, you are grokking me my Brother!

A much older reference to this is that by Sir Frances Bacon when he wrote about Idols, specifically the idols of the marketplace.
 

pointwithinacircle2

Rapscallion
Premium Member
CONFERENCE OF GRAND MASTERS

Conference%20of%20Grandmasters%20Logo.jpg


OF MASONS IN NORTH AMERICA, Inc.

http://www.cgmna.org/
 

Ripcord22A

Site Benefactor
Coach are you saying that a Mason is some one like you or Bro Cook and a freemason would be someone like me who had just began his journey?
 
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