Obey Your Government???

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by owls84, Apr 8, 2009.

  1. owls84

    owls84 Moderator Premium Member

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    Ok, I have seen several postings on here about the government and what horrible shape we are in as far as a country so I have to ask, as Masons when does it become ok to speak out and lead to oust "corrupt" politicians? We have several postings on the site that say we should "storm" Washington and make demands however are we as Masons obligated to be good citizens and mind our government (EA Charge)? I would love to see some in depth discussion on this topic.

    So when is it ok to be verbal and when does it cross the line, as Masons?
     
  2. TCShelton

    TCShelton Founding Member Premium Member

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    Our government gives us ways to oust politicians. Politicians and Government aren't necessarily the same thing. I see our gov't as being the system, not the people in it.
     
  3. Wingnut

    Wingnut Premium Member

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    ... and how do our forefathers reconcile the Revolution with their obligations?
     
  4. LRG

    LRG Premium Member

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    I think by exposing our politicians ie. the way they vote,how much money they make , how many hours they work, who gets and what they get from big companies as "gifts" and how they pay for their vacations.
    IMHO
     
  5. Blake Bowden

    Blake Bowden Administrator Staff Member

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    I agree, but a significant portion of the general public simply do not care. They're easily led around like sheep.
     
  6. LRG

    LRG Premium Member

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    Very true and sad
    When We The People will wake is when this world will be of peace
     
  7. rhitland

    rhitland Founding Member Premium Member

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    Yes but Masons are shepards and if we are true to our trust these sheep will follow us and not them. Long ago we had that kind of respect but we will have to reearn it.
     
  8. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

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    if that were true, it wouldn't matter which politicians were in office. as it is now, it matters.
     
  9. eagle1966

    eagle1966 Guest

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    until the american public wakes up the the reality of what is happening and stop wanting everything given to them we will continue to be led like lambs to the slaugher. if you don't vote then you have no room to express your dis satisfaction about how things are because you did nothing to change the status quo

    just one mans opinion
     
  10. TCShelton

    TCShelton Founding Member Premium Member

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    I've gotten pretty involved in that stuff. I get notices all the time from my Libertarian party about the current goings-on. It is a hassle, but worth it.
     
  11. RedTemplar

    RedTemplar Johnny Joe Combs Premium Member

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    Protest is a true form of patriotism
     
  12. TCShelton

    TCShelton Founding Member Premium Member

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    +1.:cool:
     
  13. Sirius

    Sirius Registered User

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    The American Revolution is ongoing. Historically, Freemasons have always been at the vanguard of our national progress. Most notable is the fact that these Brothers represented both left and right, and they still do.

    As Masons we support the proposition that all men are created free and equal in the eyes of the law. Now we may differ on how that is best achieved. But each of us can take action (vote, write a letter, attend govt meetings among others) and be part of a rational dialog about public policy. Thus we can be peaceable citizens, adhere to our obligations, and stand up for what we believe to be right.
     
  14. owls84

    owls84 Moderator Premium Member

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    I found this the other day in TX's Charge of a Freemason that may be pertinent here.

    So that if a Brother be a rebel against the State, he is not to
    be countenanced in his rebellion, however, he may be pitied as an
    unhappy man; and, if convicted of no other crime, though the loyal
    brotherhood must and ought to disown his rebellion, and give no
    umbrage or ground of political jealousy to the government for the
    time being, they cannot expel him from the Lodge, and his relation
    to it remains indefeasible.
     
  15. Blake Bowden

    Blake Bowden Administrator Staff Member

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    Absolutely!
     
  16. HKTidwell

    HKTidwell Premium Member

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    My take on it, it is the charge of every citizen to be active in the government. The act of Free speech on both sides could be termed in some parts of the world as Rebellion however in the USA it is one of our established rights. The writings of our founding fathers were often curt and to the point and would probably make our current media scream. If you doubt this then look at the writings of Brother Ben Franklin under pseudo names. His work was often great but in current day and age if somebody of national image did it they would be ascounded.

    Now if we are talking about taking up arms and forcibly changing the government then that is a different thing entirely. You must first weigh what you have done to change things as is. Then is there any method to resolve things to their rightful state, if there are no options left then we must look at massive changes. Our founding fathers had spent enormous time and effort trying to gain concessions, change, and representation from the English. In the end they were left no options and proceeded with open rebellion, to gain possession of the principle tenants that all man kind are entitled to. The right to bear arms, free speech, the ability to serve the god you choose without a government infringing upon that right, etc....

    The name calling, and labeling of people for their comments is nothing new. Unfortunately we have become a weak kneed country that is to focused on political correctness, and does not allow equal discourse upon subjects. If a person cracks a joke or goes against the policy of another who happens to be of a different race you are labeled Racist, prejudice, or otherwise, I need point no further then Scott Baios for an example. Satire, humor, and frank discussions has been a basic free speech that needs to be returned. While I may not agree with somebody, does it mean that I have the right to destroy that person for using his or hers rights? I have the right to turn the TV off/change channels, type in a different website, or be friends with who I choose, instead of destroying a person. Now blatant disregard for humanity, threats, and like things should be addressed by a case by case situation.

    I propose that if people are not happy with the current status quo on both sides of the aisle then get involved, make a difference, speak out to your neighbors, friends, and associates. Read the constitution, bill of rights, watch C-span, read federalist/anti-federalist documents, and otherwise educate yourself and others about the past, present, and future. I'm openly consider myself a radical, I believe in the founding principles!

    All over the world Freemasons have been known for their ability to calmly speak with open discourse. Yes, we have had our radicals but for the most part we have had thinkers, philosophers, debaters, etc. but in all of that most have spoken with conviction and the greater good of mankind in mind.
     
  17. HKTidwell

    HKTidwell Premium Member

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    I love the libertarian party for the basic principles, but they tend to have duds, who are single issue that run. Every time they have a candidate who is credible I try to vote for them unless somebody else is running that I support and needs the vote. I truly think a three party system would be best.
     
  18. owls84

    owls84 Moderator Premium Member

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    How great would it be if there were no party's but just a candidate with a view point? Oh how wonderful it would be. Just the face a person can fill one box and elect a whole buch of politicians is wrong to me. I think you should at least have to pick each one.
     
  19. drapetomaniac

    drapetomaniac Premium Member Premium Member

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    My most vivid memory of voting for the first time was seeing the "Straight ticket" lever - and I thought how asinine.

    I actually think states should have that just to encourage actual thinking. The Dominican Republic has a holiday preceding election day (and election day) so that people can think about their elections.
     
  20. HKTidwell

    HKTidwell Premium Member

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    The sad thing is yellow dogs(typically older people) do that, and there are republicans that do it too. When I was younger I would work the elections and people would blow my mind. People write in everything from daffy duck to Mickey Mouse. "What in the world are you thinking?" you want to scream. While with some of the politicians we would be better off with either of those two, but take the friggin time and write in somebody that is an actual person that you think would be good. Voting is something that we should all be taking immense time in deliberating and deciding before going to vote. Do I study every race no but If I'm going to cast a vote I do research on each person?

    There will always be parties, even as people we tend to build relationships based around common themes. While it may not be Ideology there is some thread that tends to connect us. One of the reason I could never run for office is I'd get upset at people who said one thing and did another. I'd be likely to say what I really think about liars, cheats, and thieves and that wouldn't be good for somebody running for an office.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2010

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