Proposed Racism Resolution

[Theoniel]

Very interesting. I'm a South African mason and we are only now starting to get petitions from races other than caucasion.

 

[jwardl]

The old timers, I suppose, know no better -- as they grew up in a different time where racism was "normal." Younger brothers, now that irks me. How can one talk about regarding the internal, rather than the external -- except for THOSE (insert group name here) people. One cannot reliably forecast the contents of a man's heart by the color of his skin, nor any other external attribute other than HIS SPECIFIC behavior.

 

[Wingnut]

This is really going to be a gut check report card. When this thing is debated and voted on the true feelings of our Fraternity will be put in the open. If it fails it will, in my opinion, show that this issue will not go away without action. We hold a tax exemption and we are one incident away from loosing that. Look at the issues in GA. We can be proactive and show that as a group we are not for this kind of behavior or we can have the actions of one Lodge jeopardize the Tax exemption for all the state. The IRS is already trying to get our money for the Lodges not reporting their earnings lets not give them a good reason to come after it.

Sadly Brother we both know its not just ONE lodge... The big question is, will it make it to the floor!

 

[JEbeling]

I am very sad about the treatment of older brethern by people like rhitland who taunt a older brother just to watch him leave lodge.. ! I am also very sad when one mason thinks it make him feel good to be progressive and puts himself up front...! kinda look at me I am better that them old dogs ... !

The fact is that masons will always have the power of the blackball.. ! and the reason can be race, religion, wrong side of the track or whatever.. ! and no bad mouthing older mason as raceist will ever change that power.. ! Like I said before... ! don't think this is a problem because when I was at Grand Lodge I would see young black masons walking around with aprons on and nobody pay and attention ... ! it wasn't like Whoa look at that.. ! they were look on as another brother.. ! have sat in lodge with black masons and as black Worshipful Master and it wasn't any great revalation.. !

 

[jwardl]

Don't know if the part of your comment about badmouthing older masons as racist was referring to mine, but if so, allow me to clarify that my words weren't intended to brand all older masons as racist. For me to do so would be bigotry of a different flavor; likening all who look a certain way as having a certain attitude. I was simply pointing out that I can excuse it (a little) when it comes from an older brother.

It HAS been my particular experience both in and out of masonic circles that racism is more prevalent among the older population than the younger -- presumably for the reasons I stated -- but that in no way means it's COMMON.

 

[rhitland]

You missed that one by a mile brother JEbling and I do not appreciate the innuendo you knew how I felt when the brother left. I was taunting no one and I am sorry you feel that bringing a black man to lodge is taunting but like you said you have that right. If he would have stayed that would have been fine with me but that was not what HE chose. If a qualified man is wanting to help am I supposed to tell him no because someone might take it as taunting? They said they would leave if a black man came to lodge and one came so they where tested to hold their word and they did and I as I said before it is NEVER fun to watch someone go but hatred has no place in lodge. I am not sure why you keep referring to black men at GL that has nothing to do with what I was talking about just because a black man is at GL lodge does not mean everything is okay and no more problems exist. This is not about revelations this is about equality. I should be able to practice Masonry equally with anyone who comes to my door to teach or learn. If this change is that painful for you to watch turn your head while the rest of us pull the thorn out.

 

[owls84]

I am very sad about the treatment of older brethern by people like rhitland who taunt a older brother just to watch him leave lodge.. ! I am also very sad when one mason thinks it make him feel good to be progressive and puts himself up front...! kinda look at me I am better that them old dogs ... !

The fact is that masons will always have the power of the blackball.. ! and the reason can be race, religion, wrong side of the track or whatever.. ! and no bad mouthing older mason as raceist will ever change that power.. ! Like I said before... ! don't think this is a problem because when I was at Grand Lodge I would see young black masons walking around with aprons on and nobody pay and attention ... ! it wasn't like Whoa look at that.. ! they were look on as another brother.. ! have sat in lodge with black masons and as black Worshipful Master and it wasn't any great revalation.. !

There are so many issues with this statement but the only thing I want to say is be very careful Bro. Ebeling so you don't pop the bubble you live in. The issue is resonating from all over the state. I can show you a post on a Lodge's Facebook page asking for help on how to handle this issue (of coarse I am not going to). There is a Lodge in North Texas that rejected a mans entry into a Fellowcraft Lodge because he was black. I personally have heard of it happening all over the state. It will have to be addressed internally or it will be addressed by the public when a man walks into a Lodge and overhears the comments that I personally have heard. Then again you probably won't have to handle that issue as well.

 

[owls84]

The big question is, will it make it to the floor!

Probably right after the Holy Bible one from last year. You remember the one about the bible being the only book allowed on the alter. (Yep its back on the books for a vote after being withdrawn) In the words of T.O. "Betta getcha popcorn ready." :52:

 

[JEbeling]

if this older mason was you Grandfather.. ! would you treat him different..?

you always hear of someone being reject because he was black.. ! but you assume the reason.. ! you don't know why the brother used the blackball...? what are you going to do allow older masons to vote.. ! only the young progressive.. !

 

[owls84]

Nope. My Uncle is one of the problem people and you should have heard the conversation between me and him. Family has no place in Lodge. We are ALL family, hence the term BROTHER. There is no assumtion when the man says "I will not sit in Lodge with a (Insert racial word here)." This during a meal before a stated meeting. Thats what you don't understand. It is not assumption when a candidate who is black withdraws his petition and people from all over show up "to Blackball the (insert racial word here)". It is not assumption when we don't vote on the man because of the withdraw and a man makes a comment in a meeting "Are we going to vote on the (insert racial word here) so we can all go home?" See you are not getting it. These are not assumptions these are facts. When the man made a comment at dinner a DDGM and Grand Lodge officer was sitting there and asked why he would make such a comment "Because I am a Bigot." These are his words not ours. These people bold enough to do this in public are the ones saying they are the racists and they have no place in Lodge. Unlike Rhit I was happy to see them go. Just because you hold a dues card that doesn't make you a Mason but it is your heart.

I didn't want to air dirty laundry but hey our laundry is clean now. It is what it is and I know FOR A FACT it is happening elsewhere about the state. If you don't want it aired in public then change to where I can file charges on a guy. If you don't like the idea of this being on a Lodge's Facebook page then make it to where it doesn't happen or when it does our Grand Lodge can do something because as it stand the respond from Grand Lodge is there is nothing saying they can't. Otherwise you sir are opening yourself up for someone to sue us just like in GA where they didn't go after our money but our Tax exemption. And you think a $25 annual returns is a lot just wait if we loose our tax exemption because we are afraid to address REAL issues or hurt someone's feelings.

 

[jwardl]

EVERY Master Mason has the right to vote, and should vote his conscience.
We can all only hope that a brother who blackballs a candidate does so for virtuous reasons, not petty ones.

 

[JEbeling]

Freedom to vote his conscience is a right as old as masonary.. ! was reading the Jefferson papers when this country was founded and the same debate was going on.. ! about giving people the right to vote and what to do when people vote the wrong way.. ! I think a lot of that idea came from masonary because at that time no other country voted for its leaders. When we have people who mis-use this freedom and mis-use the blackball there is not a heck of a lot that can be done.. ! its bad for the young man coming into masonary because he doesn't understand the why behind it.. ! I have heard the same reasoning about religion, race and in one case the comment was made that they would never vote for someone from that family..? these are just bad masons and trying to talk to them doesn't seem to change their point of view.. ? when this happens I think the young man should be told withdraw his patition and file it with another lodge.. !

 

[owls84]

when this happens I think the young man should be told withdraw his patition and file it with another lodge.. !

So in our instance how would you prefer us to handle the situation? Leave the Lodge and go to another? We saw an issue and handled the problem on our own. Don't think for a second we didn't think about going but after a discussion and cool down period we figured out the best way was not to avoid it but to attack it. You keep addressing the blackball but that is not what is being challenged. We are addressing an issue that is driving good men away from our Fraternity at a time where every single person matters.

I am curious how you would have handled the issue in YOUR Lodge. What if tomorrow a few guys come in and a comment is made about the color of their skin? How would you, a Past Master, handle this issue? I am not speaking of an assumption but an outright self proclaimed "bigot". Lets just say for scenario purpose he too is a Past Master and happens to serve on the Grand Lodge Civil Law Committee and Grand Lodge says their hands are tied.

 

[JEbeling]

Don't have a good answer.. ! I know that the year I was DDGM there was a lodge in Corpus that his son was blackballed.. ! after that every person they voted on had one blackball.. ! The Grand Master, along with a few DDGM went to the next meeting and sat this brother down and had a heart to heart talk with him.. ! the Grand Master instructed to revote on all the ones that had been blackballed and they passed.. !

Somehow the DDGM and the Grand Master must have a talk with them and find out whats going on and if there can be some way to find middle ground..? Don't think this can be handled by local Worshipful Master.. ! somebody with big hammer needs to have a quiet talk with them to resolve what ever issue they have..?
I think these guys think its cool in their circle of friends to act stupid.. ! and they get their feeling hurt when they think they can't run things.. ! don't think they see the damage they do to masonary.. !

 

[owls84]

Bro. Ebeling you and I for once on this issue have the exact same answer. Thank you for posting it. The issue we had is a very factual issue. We took it to Grand Lodge to have the Grand Master review it. After review it was decided that Grand Lodge could not act because there was nothing in the law book that allowed them to act. The Grand Secretary himself said that without legislation the Grand Master's powers are limited. That is all this does. We are not looking to run members off but we are looking to give people a fair chance. We are not looking to take away people right to vote how they want but do so on your own. Don't bring your beliefs into Lodge because a Bro. Rhit said "Hatred does not belong in the Lodge room."

Thanks again for the response and I hope that by filling you in my particular issue with this topic we could open our minds to just how bad it is in some Lodges. The fact is no one wants to file a form 1 on someone but when it comes down to it at the end of the day we are all members of the same orginazation and we should be using our trowels to spead Brotherly Love and if someone prevents us from using our tools we should be able to prevent them from being apart of this great orginazation. I would hate for a few bad apples to ruin our organizations rich history.

On a side note what allows the Grand Master the ability to revote once a ballot has been declared and closed? I realize it is one thing to question the Grand Master but I did not think he had "ultimate" power and the outcome of the voting is not something he has the power to question.

 

[JEbeling]

Well kinda the power of Grand Masters office... ! He said this is what we are going to do.. ! We all sat in lodge while the voted .. ! kinda one of those thing when nobody said he couldn't do it..? it turn out very well... !

That was also the year he told one lodge to handle something one way.. ! they told he they did not want to do that and wasn't going to do it... ! we made another trip to Corpus Christi and pick up the Charter off the wall and came home.. ! it took 4-5 years before they got it back after a lot of book keeping to clear up where some money from the lodge went.. !

I think the Grand Master has the power of his office to sit the brothern down and have a heart to heart with them.. ! don't think it would take much to stop this.. ?
if there isn't a law he can make it up as he goes... ! maybe pick up a few due's cards.. ! etc.. ! might be a while before they get them back...?

Still don't think this is wide spread.. ! I have just never seen it in my travels.. !

 

[rhitland]

if this older mason was you Grandfather.. ! would you treat him different..?

you always hear of someone being reject because he was black.. ! but you assume the reason.. ! you don't know why the brother used the blackball...? what are you going to do allow older masons to vote.. ! only the young progressive.. !

funny you should mention my Grandfather because both of them when I was young was as racist as they come and I heard all kinds of crazy comments. But as I got older and had influence on them, you know what they did? They changed! Both accepted what they beleived was wrong, let the hate go and moved on to what matters most loving one another. I know this change is hard but I also know it is possible. My grandfathers also accepted the wrongness on many other issues and I cannot express how lucky I am to have and had men like that in my lofe it has made all the difference. To answer your question though I would have asked my Grandfather to stay home if that would have been a problem for him and he could go some other time, maybe.

 

[rhitland]

just fyi I was not the only inflience on my Grandfathers I had lots of help with brotehrs, cousins, aunts and uncles.

 

[david918]

Since I am now a member of a lodge in Minnesota also I was wondering if their or I guess one of my Grand Masters MW John L Cook,Jr would be welcome in some Texas lodges.

http://www.mn-masons.org/node/9401

 

[owls84]

Still don't think this is wide spread.. ! I have just never seen it in my travels.. !

I have put a little thought in this and I do think it is unfair to think this is common. I think this is not the norm but the fact is it is happening at various Lodges around the state. I think this would help give the Lodges help that need it and it would serve as protection for the Grand Lodge if a suit ever arises because it would show a stance against such behavior.