Side degrees politics

Discussion in 'Frequently Asked Questions' started by Lowcarbjc, Oct 30, 2013.

  1. Lowcarbjc

    Lowcarbjc Registered User

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    In my country we have four constitutions - GLSA, GLS, GLI and UGLE - (South African, Scotish, Irish and English) - All four regular and as far as the blue lodge degrees go, accepted everywhere.

    Someone told me yesterday that from the side degrees onwards, lets say Mark/Royal Arch etc, it is not always recognized by the other constitutions if you do it with one, and vice versa. It seems like there are some politics where a person with lets say a RA degree of even as high as a KT degree with one rite, might not be welcome at all in a RA degree of another rite etc. Is the scotish rite "against" the york rite etc?

    Is there any truth in all this.. if so, why?




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  2. Mike Martin

    Mike Martin Eternal Apprentice Premium Member

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    It's not a subject that can't be simply answered on a Forum as it is based on the about 80 year history of how these Degrees came about and were grafted to the Craft Degrees's story in the late 1700s. You need to read about five books to get the actual basis of the situation.

    However and for information your guide is your own Grand Lodge and its rules if it has any. For example if you are a UGLE Mason there are no particular rules except for HRA as the UGLE (in the form of the Moderns and the Antients) agreed that all other degrees (based of their real not legendary histories) were not a part of Antient Masonry.

    In the HRA a part of the ceremonies is no longer worked under the English Supreme Grand Chapter and so can cause some awkwardness if visiting as a Companion elsewhere.

    There is no York Rite here in the British Isles as it's an American grouping of degrees that actually developed separately.
     
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  3. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    I understand that in the UK it is refered to as the American Rite.
     
  4. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    I have never heard the US amalgamation referred to as the American Rite. Reference?
     
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  5. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    ive seen it posted on here a few times. However, You are the only Mason i "know" that is both a UGLE and US Mason so i would defer to you on matters involving the islands across the pond.
     
  6. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    No reference. I saw it on one of these forums awhile back. Don't remember which.
     
  7. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    I've never heard of "American rite" and the term is not used here in Australia.
     
  8. MarkR

    MarkR Premium Member

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    I've seen several authors, from Mackey to Carr, say that the York Rite would be more properly called the American Rite, because that particular grouping of degrees (that are mostly stand-alone elsewhere) is unique to the United States, is not really a "rite" in the truest sense, and has nothing to do with York.
     
  9. Mike Martin

    Mike Martin Eternal Apprentice Premium Member

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    Not really, I only use the term due to the large amount of Masonic history books I have read from both sides of the Atlantic. If you used the phrase York Rite in England the vast majority of our Freemasons would give you a blank look and shuffle off muttering.

    The difficulty is that the "legendary" origins of the York Rite (as evidenced by American Authors and Freemasons alike) gives the impression that it is practised here in England and the reality is that it is not. The Degrees that it contains are here and worked but not in any kind of order.

    There is a further difficulty when you look harder at that "legendary" origin because it claims that the York Rite stems from the "legendary" Grand Lodge of All England at York reputedly started in AD 926, this of course to English Freemasons is known to be a legend but it has grown over there. There was a Lodge at York and in common with others around the British isles it was Initiating non Stone Masons into membership but it wasn't a Grand Lodge until it declared itself to be one in 1725 (Those familiar with the English North/South divide will understand why) this Grand Lodge was even in fraternal relations with the Premier Grand Lodge in 1738, however, it worked the same Degree system as England, Ireland and Scotland until it petered out in the 1740s.

    The Grand Lodge of All England at York that the York Rite actually owes its origin to was the second, reponed version operating from the late 1760s to 1793. This version added extra (appendant) degrees to the ceremonies that it worked in its Lodges, suffice it to say it did not last long here in England but it seems to have flourished in post War of Independence America.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2016
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  10. youngsandy

    youngsandy Registered User

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    I have always known the Lodge,Chapter including Cryptic Council and the Lodge and Council as well as the KT as York rite.
     
  11. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    HUH?
     
  12. youngsandy

    youngsandy Registered User

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    Lodge works the first 3 degrees including the Mark. The Royal Arch degrees are Mark, Excellant Master and Holy Royal Arch. Under the jurisdiction of the Supreme Grand Royal Arch Chapter is the Cryptic Council and the Lodge and Council (Royal Ark Mariners). Great Priory has jurisdiction over the KT.
    Note no Master Past the Chair degree.
     
  13. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    my brain hurts.
     
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  14. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    He's speaking of Scotland
     
  15. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    I understand that, i even get all the degrees he mentions, however the way me put it all together makes no sense
     

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