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The Elite ?

Dontrell Stroman

Premium Member
I have to ask for the sake of asking since the brother mentioned them. Do you brothers believe that the Illuminati exist ? Serious question.
 

SeeKer.mm

Premium Member
I have to ask for the sake of asking since the brother mentioned them. Do you brothers believe that the Illuminati exist ? Serious question.
From what I understand there was a group called the Bavarian Illuminati, and it didn't last long, but the mere word continues to bring wondrous ideas to people's imagination. Brother Chris Hodapp talks about the whole thing fact and fiction here. Http://illuminatifor dummies.blogspot.com/2009/05/real-illuminati.html
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
See that's what I was getting at. So do you believe these people are invited into these organizations based on their social, and economic status ?

I have posted elsewhere that certain mainland European jurisdictions recruit by invitation not by petition. When the brethren stop resisting a system by invitation it becomes a system of deciding who are the most eminent men in a neighborhood and inviting them. It becomes a system that invites quality. I've met Brothers who have immigrated from some of these jurisdictions and they find the resistance to invitations bizarre based on their experiences back home.

I will note that eminent does not equate to rich or powerful all that often. Think of the elderly couple down the street that all the kids call Grandma and Grandpa that take care of everyone they encounter and see to it that everyone is well behaved. On one block that Grandma and Grandpa quietly own apartment buildings and have retired from ownership of businesses that employ dozens. On the next block the next Grandma and Grandpa never could manage more than paying their mortgage and getting to work.

I've sat in lodge with business moguls and guys who struggle to find work. It's hard to tell which is which when you join them in discussions. You have to get to know Brothers one at a time before you learn their outside life situation.
 

chrmc

Registered User
I have to ask for the sake of asking since the brother mentioned them. Do you brothers believe that the Illuminati exist ? Serious question.

And as a serious question I think that conspiracy theories like that have nothing to do with masonry, and should be better left to crazy websites dealing with that kinds of stuff. Not trying to be cheeky, but you asked for an honest answer.

As late as last year a book came out clearly detailing the rituals, rise and demise of the Illuminati. Do they still exist in the Shadows and control the world? No. They never did.

Are there powerful groups of networks in the worlds centered around business, education and other such things. Sure there is. But that has nothing to do with Freemasonry.
 

chrmc

Registered User
Is that a comment on Freemasonry more generally?

Maybe a little bit. But I was more aiming at the fact that especially in the US we see invitational groups that have gone from being places of higher learning and light into twice a year dinner clubs. I think that's a shame.
 

chrmc

Registered User
I have posted elsewhere that certain mainland European jurisdictions recruit by invitation not by petition. When the brethren stop resisting a system by invitation it becomes a system of deciding who are the most eminent men in a neighborhood and inviting them. It becomes a system that invites quality. I've met Brothers who have immigrated from some of these jurisdictions and they find the resistance to invitations bizarre based on their experiences back home.

Dues will also do it. Most places in Europe masonry is a lot more expensive in the US and they don't have anything called Endowed membership.
For instance my membership in Europe costs me about 100 USD per quarter. And that's half the usual rate because I live in the US and can't attend so often. In addition to that lodge only meets 6 months out of the year.

I don't think it's elitist, but if you set your price point at a level where it really costs something you'll usually get people who are committed because they are paying a lot for the product.
 

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
I believe Freemasonry in many European countries is still elite because it is still mainly composed of community leaders, industrialists, etc.
My lodge counts among its membership a U.S. President, a Cabinet member, an ambassador to Russia, two U.S. Senators, four U.S. Congressmen, two state supreme court judges, and a Major League baseball player. All of them were prior to WWII. Today, we have a couple of minor, local elected officials, but the only time you see them at a lodge meeting is just before an election. In 22 years as a Master Mason, I don't know that I've ever sat in lodge with a judge or a doctor. Local business leaders join the country club, not the lodge. (For full disclosure, I am a teacher and have a master's degree, so I like to think I am influential and make an impact in my local community.)
On a general basis, I quite agree. However, come sit in Wasatch Lodge #1 and you can have a retired senior military judge and seven doctorates.
 

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
Maybe a little bit. But I was more aiming at the fact that especially in the US we see invitational groups that have gone from being places of higher learning and light into twice a year dinner clubs. I think that's a shame.
Which ones?
 

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
So you don't believe only a few know what's going on within a large group ?
I haven't seen that in England or US Freemasonry. Now, in any organization, people in leadership roles will typically have more information. There will be times that there is information which is confidential. For instance, in disciplinary matters until a final decision is made; or a lodge or Scottish Rite almoner may have personal information.

There are, I am afraid, members who just can't be bothered to know what is going on. They could go to GL Communication and District meetings and visit and join appendant bodies and have access to information, but they don't.

Let's take this board as an example. Isn't information freely exchanged here? In today's Internet, I suspect it is difficult for only a few to know what is going on.
 

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
So you don't believe only a few know what's going on within a large group ?
I haven't seen that in England or US Freemasonry. Now, in any organization, people in leadership roles will typically have more information. There will be times that there is information which is confidential. For instance, in disciplinary matters until a final decision is made; or a lodge or Scottish Rite almoner may have personal information.

There are, I am afraid, members who just can't be bothered to know what is going on. They could go to GL Communication and District meetings and visit and join appendant bodies and have access to information, but they don't.

Let's take this board as an example. Isn't information freely exchanged here? In today's Internet, I suspect it is difficult for only a few to know what is going on.
 

chrmc

Registered User
Which ones?

I think it is quite different depending on the State, and seeing as I'm not a member of any of the bodies that I'm mentioning I may very well be quite wrong, but these are my perceptions based on talking to members.
However that being said I believe the SRICF is the best example. In some states it's just a dinner club, where I believe in others there's actually some good studies going on. C.B.C.S. strikes me as another one holding some quite old secrets (or at least rituals), but not much happening there.

On a more accessible level it is my impression that AMD councils also vary quite a lot. Some a great and active, whilst others meet twice and that's it.

I would however love to hear comments from people that have joined and can speak more clearly to it.
 

Companion Joe

Premium Member
On a general basis, I quite agree. However, come sit in Wasatch Lodge #1 and you can have a retired senior military judge and seven doctorates.

You're right; my comment is more of a generalization across the country. You are in downtown Salt Lake City, so your membership makeup is going to be much different than a rural lodge. I'm sure any large, metropolitan area will have more white collar than blue collar members.
 
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