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The long way home

Bill Lins

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
I would like to hear the exact wording of yours since mine only says I can’t attend. It makes no other claims or condemnations.
In that case you would have to call him and, after satisfying him of your identity, he could say it to you. If you're asking him to type it for you, THAT would also violate the Texas obligations.
 

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
I would like to hear the exact wording of yours since mine only says I can’t attend. It makes no other claims or condemnations.
Well, the law of my US jurisdictions considers them clandestine masons, and therefore not genuine masons. I can see some relevance in the various assents I have given:

"You promise to respect genuine Brethren, and to discountenance impostors, and all dissenters from the original plan of Masonry?"

“I will, according to the best of my abilities, strictly comply with...all other ancient masonic usages, and that I will enforce a strict obedience to the same from all subject to my authority.”
 

YHWH

Registered User
In my Constitution/Obedience we can't attend a Co-masonry meeting, but I think that Co-masonry could be a good opportunity for moral growth for men and women, so I'm happy to send a brotherly hug to Victoria
 

Brother JC

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
In my Constitution/Obedience we can't attend a Co-masonry meeting, but I think that Co-masonry could be a good opportunity for moral growth for men and women, so I'm happy to send a brotherly hug to Victoria

Ding! We have a winner.

All; it was a challenge of quote versus “interpretation of the law.” I know, and agree, with the deeper rules. I was challenging the assertion that “my ob says so.” It does not, it gives specific instructions of one- to three things you are NOT allowed to do but all else comes from further guidance (constitutions, by laws, ‘landmarks’). Nitpicking? Yes, but it’s a natural reaction to veiled hostility cast upon someone seeking Light. In no ones ob does it say to block a clandestinely made mason’s path.

Bro. Bill, I would never. It was a rhetorical “wish I could hear it.”
 

YHWH

Registered User
The problem is however more complicated: in addition to the institutional mixed obediences, known to the State Institutions, in some countries there are "clandestine" or "unofficial" masonries (male or mixed), which exploit secrecy for obscure affairs.
In Italy secret societies are forbidden for this reason.
We know "official obediences", like https://www.granloggiaditalia.eu/ , http://www.ateneotradizionale.it/tag/luigi-pruneti/, https://www.gldirs.it/it_IT/home , https://www.droit-humain.it/ (etc, etc), which are not "regular" for mainstream Masonry, but composed of wholehearted and well-known people.
Other obediences... I would stay very far from them
 

Victoria Bonadonna

Registered User
forgive my bad way of writing in English... :D
Grazie per le gentili parole. Mi è stato detto che ci potrebbe essere ostilità da parte di coloro che provengono dalle logge di rito di York, ma speravo in una mentalità aperta. Tuttavia, ho molto apprezzato le tue parole gentili e ti restituisco l'abbraccio fraterno! TFA VICTORIA
 

YHWH

Registered User
In generale il Rito di York, essendo Antico e Tradizionale, é di impronta Antient e esclusivamente maschile.
Qualcuno é a conoscenza di una Obbedienza mista che pratichi il Rito di York?
 

YHWH

Registered User
Usually, the York Rite, being Ancient and Traditional in its foundation, is of Antient and exclusively male Constitution.
Does anyone know of a mixed or female Obedience working the York Rite?
In UK there is an Order of Female Masonry, working Emulation and Royal Arch Rituals, something like York Rite.
 

Bloke

Premium Member
Usually, the York Rite, being Ancient and Traditional in its foundation, is of Antient and exclusively male Constitution.
Does anyone know of a mixed or female Obedience working the York Rite?
In UK there is an Order of Female Masonry, working Emulation and Royal Arch Rituals, something like York Rite.
"the York Rite?"
York Rite vrs AASR is, in my experience, and an American construct - you use this construct it in Italy ?
 

YHWH

Registered User
In Italy (GOI, the principal Obedience) there is an AASR-based Craft and an Emulation one.
Some American military lodges work the Duncan Ritual or the Craft of York.

As far as the Degrees of Perfection are concerned, there is the York Rite, with American Charter, but also other Rites, including AASR, and others.
www.grancapitolo.it could be of interest.

There are also other secundary Obediences, including a minor one, born from a subtle political agreement, called RGLI, recognized by UGLE, which practices side degrees such as the Mark and the Royal Arch, which, however, are not systematized according to the York Rite
 

Brother JC

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
We have the false groups seeking profit in the US, as well. They’re usually easy for a “state name” Mason to spot. We also have more established, honest seekers. In fact, the Grand Lodge of California will host the GM of the Women’s Grand Lodge of California in its speaker’s series next month.
I can well believe the situation in Italy is tricky to navigate, as a member of multiple grand lodges I find myself unable to visit either “approved” body without violating one decree or the other.
And while Duncan (and others before him) may have dubbed it the “Ancient York Rite,” to most that phrase describes the package of side degrees and orders that are only combined so in the US. Only one grand lodge in the US follows the workings of the Antients.
 

TheThumbPuppy

Registered User
We have quite a few countries in Europe with a rather complicated landscape. I believe that in France there are a dozen or more denominations.

Even a small country like Belgium has five, only one of which is regular and recognised by UGLE, ie the Regular Grand Lodge of Belgium. The other four – the Grand Orient of Belgium (the largest by far and with a strong anti-catholic stand), the Grand Lodge of Belgium, the Women's Grand Lodge of Belgium, and the Belgian Federation of Le Droit Humain – recognise each other but are not recognised by UGLE.

It took me quite some time to understand the differences between denominations.

I finally opted for the Grand Lodge of Scotland, that has 2 Lodges in Belgium under its supervision, one in Antwerp and one in Brussels, both obviously fully recognised by UGLE. The one in Brussels - Lodge Allegiance – is English-speaking and meets in the same Masonic Hall used by the Regular Grand Lodge of Belgium.

Interesting trivial facts: the Masonic Hall houses a wall panel depicting Confucius, a statue of Buddha, a Dharma Wheel from the XIX century, and many other intriguing artefacts. By contrast, its façade is rather unassuming.

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TheThumbPuppy

Registered User
P. S. : which is the US Grand Lodge which follows the workings of the Antients?

Do you mean what Grand Lodges in the US are regular and recognised by UGLE?

If that's your question, I believe there are two for each state, the Grand Lodge for that state and the Prince Hall Grand Lodge for that state. Although there may be some exceptions.

And I think that the Grand Lodge for some state lost recognition.

But I'll let our American friends answer this one.
 

YHWH

Registered User
No,
BrotherJC wrote "Only one grand lodge in the US follows the workings of the Antients"
 

Brother JC

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
Correct, Pennsylvania uses a different ritual than the rest of the US, with direct links to the Antient Grand Lodge.
This (contrary to popular belief) has little to do with the alphabet soup that confuses Masons daily. (And one I think we should drop, but that’s another debate.)
 
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