There comes a time

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by JTM, Jan 20, 2009.

  1. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

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    Well, we know that you can't talk about politics or religion in lodge, and the GLoT mission states that they want to create a fraternity that doesn't have divisions created by those 2 things.

    However, we also know that Masonry teaches us certain principles. How do you help a fellow brother that believes in a policy that is certainly "anti-masonic" when they pull the "don't talk about politics" card on you?

    I have a brother who refuses to talk about politics, but subscribes to a very "anti-masonic" set of politics.

    What to do?
     
  2. jonesvilletexas

    jonesvilletexas Premium Member

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    You are right the Grand Lodge Law states we do not talk politics in lodge. But to "anti-Masonic talk outside the Lodge" I am going to look at this I believe depending on just what he is saying he might be brought up on charges. How long has he been a Mason? Do you know if he has always had this attitude?
     
  3. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

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    mason for 2-3 years.

    and the big problem is that it's just that it's my opinion that they are "anti-masonic"

    it's not really codified.
     
  4. Wingnut

    Wingnut Premium Member

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    you are also admonished to whisper good council and to prevent danger... failing that Id seek council from a trusted brother within the lodge for help...
     
  5. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

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    well, even wider than this specific brother, how would you deal with it?
     
  6. FC charge: judge with candor, admonish with friendship, reprehend with justice

    if he's truly breaking Masonic law then the JW is your man. After he has a shot to act upon it I would follow up with the Worshipful. If the problem is still not adjudicated you can take it to the DDGM.

    Warning 1: DDGM's are specifically charged with not dealing with hypothetical situations. there is no point in bringing this to him without specifics and with the expectation of charges and censure or a trial.

    Warning 2: This will likely cause the principal officers of your lodge to be cast in a less than positive and a less than effective light by the DDGM and by extension the Most Worshipful.

    I would ask him to lunch. Offer to treat. Make small talk until mid way through the cheeseburger of fajita wrap then say, "I understand from things you've said that you believe thus & so... I'm concerned about that because I believe thus & so to be unmasonic and as my Brother, I'm obligated to look out for you and help prevent anything that could possibly bring charges against you thus putting our lodge and the craft in a bad light. So can you help me reconcile your belief in Masonry and your belief in thus and so. That way if leadership gets involved I could perhaps then be an advocate in helping them understand as well."

    If the, "we don't talk about religion & politics," card get's played then, I'd respond with, "yes, but that's in Lodge... we're in Chili's."

    In such situations, those with which I've dealt and disposed of are legion, I always try to avoid the use of the words:
    "opinion" - hard to get more Masonic than freedom of thought and freedom of speech
    "feelings" - they're often irrelevant to the situation, often irrational, and always less important than manners.

    I could perhaps be more help, James if you PM'd me the substance or actions caused by the young brother's anti-masonic opining
     
  7. TCShelton

    TCShelton Founding Member Premium Member

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    Do you have a problem with naming the specific issue at hand?
     
  8. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

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    it's not really that he's "breaking masonic law" per se, it's just that some views that i've seen people have on the role of government and such are not in sync with masonic principles in the least.

    and no, no problem, just don't need to. it was more of a "what would you do?" kind of thing than a "what should i do in this particular case?"

    as for this, i'll continue to chip away. :) perhaps i'll get him into chili's as Bro Sec suggested.
     
  9. TCShelton

    TCShelton Founding Member Premium Member

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    Such as?:confused:
     
  10. It's hard to get more Masonic than freedom of thought. It may be impossible to get more Masonic than two who bitterly disagree sitting in lodge and conversing in a respectful and civil manner. Remember what Brother Voltaire said, "I may disagree with what you say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it."

    if it's a liberal / conservative, big government / small government, socialism / free market, government takes care of your whiny butt cradle to grave / personal responsibility issue... just forget about it. being a liberal is not anti-masonic. our organizing roots are that of a labor union. as we're a reflection of the society we're in I'd guess that perhaps another one or two out of every ten in your lodge share his beliefs. Just as in my lodge in the People's Republic of Austin about half are liberals and two or three out of every ten are screaming flaming glittering jewels of liberalism. Doesn't make them any less my Brother just cause I don't believe as they do.

    the only really true Masonic Political Belief: I believe in an independent judiciary, a representative legislature, being a good and peaceable citizen in a government operating solely by the consent of the governed, with equal treatment for all, and a free people exercising force in a civil manner at the ballot box choosing their leadership. And remembering that a person is supreme to an institution, especially a religious institution and most especially a government institution. (see Knight Kadosh, Knight of the Black & White Eagle aka the 30th Degree of the Ancient & Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry). Not to get off on a rant here, but it was Government Institutions that killed two hundred million people in the last century. In the past four thousand years or so collectively the single largest murderer of people has been Religious Institutions and usually murder not in furtherance of their interpretation of the Grand Architect but in furtherance of their earthly power base, their short-term temporary frivolous earthbound BS struggle for power and wealth. A sun bleached skull can only tell you three things: he was a man... he lived... he died...

    A truly Great thing about Masonry I've seen first hand: At Austin Scottish Rite I have personally sat at a table and shared a meal with Brother G (who's as Jewish as they come) and Brother N (who was a Colonel in the Luftwaffe during WWII) without a single scintilla of discord, discomfort, or contention in the air.

    Now that is light, My Brothers!!!
     
  11. Wingnut

    Wingnut Premium Member

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    As I was starting to read your post Bro David I kept thinking "In the SR we learned that..." then you went there. Then you went where I was thinking with Organized Religion and the massive deaths because of it (ie Crusades). Very good post!
     
  12. Wingnut

    Wingnut Premium Member

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    Pike is one of the most brilliant minds that has ever done good for Masonry IMHO. Sadly he has also been used to try to discredit us by Cowans that are ignorant to the truth.
     
  13. Sirius

    Sirius Registered User

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    I'm not sure what political views regarding freedom of thought would be unmasonic. Perhaps if a Mason believed in an official state religion.

    In what way (or in what proposal) is government attempting to control thought?
     
  14. rhitland

    rhitland Founding Member Premium Member

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    The craft is trully greatness!
     

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