What is the difference between af&am and f&am?

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by KO2134, Aug 3, 2012.

  1. KO2134

    KO2134 Registered User

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    please include some history and id really love it if towerbuilder7would chime in on this post because he gives great answers
     
  2. jrmysell

    jrmysell Registered User

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    Ancient Free and Accepted Masons - "Regular"
    Free and Accepted Masons - Prince Hall
     
  3. KO2134

    KO2134 Registered User

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    thanks for your input but even i know that prince hall masons arent the only f&am
     
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  4. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    I'm afraid that's false. While legitimate Prince Hall masons are all F&AM, there are many Regular lodges in the USA that are not Prince Hall but are F&AM. Louisiana, from which Texas received her first charter, is F&AM, for example.
     
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  5. KSigMason

    KSigMason Traveling Templar Site Benefactor

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    AF&AM and F&AM goes back to Great Schism between the Grand Lodges in England back in the 18th and 19th centuries. During the time when the Antients and the Moderns were split, they were still handing out charters to Lodges in America. States often chartered a Grand Lodge under one of these two English GL's and even after they United into what today is known as the UGLE, the American Grand Lodges still kept the AF&AM and F&AM attachments even though the rituals are very close, particularly with so many following the rituals set-out by Preston and Webb.
     
  6. Spring TX MM

    Spring TX MM Premium Member

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  7. A7V

    A7V Registered User

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    You are right I am a member of Hawaiian Lodge and we are F&AM and not PHA

    Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
     
  8. scialytic

    scialytic Premium Member

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    Here is a link to a thread regarding the difference for PHA as well as mainstream. It is pretty thorough and very informative regarding the histories of both Prince Hall and mainstream Freemasonry in the United States.

    http://www.masonsoftexas.com/general-freemasonry-discussion/15078-who-freemason.html

    The Cliff's Notes: Mainstream Lodges can vary depending on their historical lineage to the Ancients, Moderns, Scottish or Irish Grand Lodge granting their charter. Prince Hall Lodges are either F.&A.M. or are clandestine in that there is no (legitimate) direct lineage to the UGLE (or the "moderns" before the merge, where the charter for Africa Lodge was granted to Prince Hall; hence the F.&A.M. without the "Antient").

    I am no historian on these matters, but enjoyed the research.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2012
  9. towerbuilder7

    towerbuilder7 Moderator Premium Member

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    GOOD EVENING BROTHERS.........I can appreciate each of the offerings bestowed by the Brotherhood, and I read each one submitted prior to mine carefully. Please allow me to be perfectly clear-----one who has correctly researched the lineage of the receipt of the Charter requested by Bro Prince Hall in Sept of 1784, and received by Bro Prince Hall in Sept of 1787 has observed that the Charter was numbered #459, as the Lodge was aptly named African Lodge #459. This Lodge was later re-numbered to #370 as late as 1792, which was well before the merge between the Antients and Moderns. The Lodge known as African Lodge #459 was NEVER considered clandestine, as it was aptly chartered by a Grand Body from a competent Jurisdiction, empowering it to work. The Lodges known today as Prince Hall Affiliated F&AM Lodges here in the United States were formed in the very same manner that many of the Mainstream Lodges across the United States were formed, in that another recognized Grand Lodge issued dispensation and eventually the Charter which empowered that State to work. For those who would like information or further LIGHT on differences between PHA and PHO (National Compact Masons), all one needs to know is that at THIS time, Prince Hall Affiliated (PHA) Masons are the ONLY REGULAR AND RECOGNIZED body of Freemasonry among the many that exist in the Black Community----Prince Hall Origin (PHO), International and Free, Free and Accepted Modern, Ancient Free and Accepted, and the list goes ONNNNNNN.................NEITHER STYLE OF MASONRY IS CONSIDERED TO BE FORMALLY RECOGNIZED, AS NEITHER CAN ESTABLISH A DOCUMENTED LINEAGE TO A CHARTER RECEIVED BY THE UNITED GRAND LODGE OF ENGLAND........NUFF SAID.........

    The time period betwen 1840 and 1870 had a lot of conflict involved among Masons of Color in the United States, and those differences were eventually ironed out as the Prince Hall Affiliated Lodges sought, fought for, and eventually established STATE'S RIGHTS AND SOVEREIGNTY over the national governing body known as the National Compact. As recently as 1944, each State agreed to style its Grand Lodge as the "Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of........." TWO States in our Union are PHA, with different names, those States being Mississippi (Stringfellow Grand Lodge) and Florida (Union Grand Lodge). These two States ARE Prince Hall Affiliated, and are REGULAR AND RECOGNIZED as are the others styled Prince Hall Affiliated Grand Lodges.

    Some Men who were raised as Prince Hall Masons, such as John G. Jones, (33rd Degree) took it upon themselves to bestow Masonic Degrees on Men himself, sometimes for profit, and then form Masonic Lodges styled ANCIENT FREE AND ACCEPTED MASONRY from State to State during this time of conflict and confusion, preying on the unsuspecting Men who simply wanted to become MASONS. Jones styled HIS BRAND of Masonry, ANCIENT FREE AND ACCEPTED MASONRY, SOUTHERN AND WESTERN JURISDICTION, and established this brand on April 5, 1869, in Washington, DC. There are fundamental problems with this, with THE FIRST being that Jones made the claim that he received his "CHARTER" from the GRAND LODGE OF ROMANIA in 1869. We can research this, and find that this Grand Lodge of Romania was not even established until 1880. Even if it HAD been issued legitimately, another problem is Jones still committed what is termed as a "Masonic Invasion", by establishing "GRAND LODGES" in Illinois, Washington DC, and several other States in between, by not receiving proper dispensation from either Grand Body of Mainstream or Prince Hall Affiliated Masonry in the States involved.

    Jones was sued several times by the Prince Hall Grand Bodies in these affected States, and was eventually expelled from the Craft in 1895. The BIGGER problem is THIS ANCIENT FREE AND ACCEPTED brand of Masonry still lives today in the Black Community, and STILL breeds miseducation, dissension, and confusion among many Men who seek membership, and even those who are ALREADY MEMBERS, who misunderstand the PRIMARY benefit of being made a Mason----being accepted as a REGULAR AND RECOGNIZED member of a Masonic Body with traceable lineage to the UGLE.

    Prince Hall Affiliated Lodges have a unique link in their lineage, in that the Charter for African Lodge #459 received by Bro Prince Hall is the ORIGINAL Charter issued by the Grand Lodge of England still in possession of a Grand Body here in the United States. It is stored in a Bank Vault In Boston, Massachusetts. There are also 26 States in our Union whose Mainstream Grand Body of Masonry is styled FREE AND ACCEPTED, which alludes to the style of Masonry that was predominant prior to the schism, as the Brother correctly posted a few comments before mine. The Military Lodge where Prince Hall and 15 other Men of Color were initiated on March 6, 1775, was working under the Grand Lodge of Ireland, and was in Boston, obviously, working on a little issue we have come to know as the American Revolution.

    When one discusses differences between FREE AND ACCEPTED, AND ANCIENT FREE AND ACCEPTED Masonry here in the U.S., there are some notable differences when moving the discussion from Mainstream to what is known today as Prince Hall Affiliated Masonry. The John G. Jones issue created an entire brand of Clandestine Freemasonry in the Black community, which runs rampant across the country today. The schism between the Antients and Moderns was resolved, and by 1813, Mainstream Masonry was working under one United Grand Lodge of England.

    Prince Hall Masons wrote letters to the UGLE, sent rosters, Death Notices, Charity and Relief payments for several years after the death of Bro Prince Hall in 1807, but letters were never returned with a response. By 1827, Brothers of the African Lodge made a decision which became a historical one indeed----they declared their independence from the United Grand Lodge of England, and formed African Lodge #1, with three subordinate Lodges under its wing.
    (Boston, Mass, Providence, R.I., Philadelphia, PA.)

    In TODAY'S version of Masonry, this would not be the the appropriate way to form a Lodge or GRAND LODGE, as many clandestine Lodges in Black Community styled as ANCIENT FREE AND ACCEPTED MASONRY (most formed under the lineage of John G. Jones) STILL continue to operate this way---MANUFACTURE GRAND LODGES IN CITIES ACROSS THE NATION WHENEVER THERE IS A SCHISM OR THE SITTING "GRAND MASTER" FEELS LIKE FORMING MORE LODGES" . But, the price paid and consequence suffered for THESE LODGES is their lack of FORMAL RECOGNITION by the two predominant Grand Bodies of REGULAR AND RECOGNIZED Masonry in the US---Mainstream and Prince Hall Affiliation (PHA). The actions taken by our Prince Hall Brethren in 1827 in the establishment of African Grand Lodge #1 have been considered to be of "considerable regularity" by the UGLE, as noted as recently as Dec. 1994.

    The answer to this "epidemic" of clandestine Masonry? First, Provide proper and accurate information for Men seeking membership in FREEMasonry, so that the MIS-information can be countered with information that will benefit the potential petitioner. Second, Ensure that each Mainstream and PHA Grand Body in each State is doing its part to promote a POSITIVE IMAGE for the Men and Bond of Masonry. WE CAN BE AS GREAT OR AS BAD AS MEN WE ATTRACT..........Third, Encourage Men who have been identified as potential petitioners to seek LIGHT about Masonry from actual members of Masonic Lodges, to dispel the MISINFORMATION that is sometimes disseminated on the World Wide Web......and LAST, The Internet is a great tool, but there is NO GREATER MOTTO than the one we have seen around for years------"TO BE 1, ASK 1".........................If we strive to be the Men GOD wants us to be, our LIGHT will shine brightly enough for these Men to FIND US and want to affiliate with us in our respective Lodges.............


    HUMBLY AND FRATERNALLY SUBMITTED, BRO. VINCENT C. JONES, SR., BAYOU CITY LODGE #228, PRINCE HALL AFFILIATION, FREE AND ACCEPTED MASONRY, MOST WORSHIPFUL PRINCE HALL GRAND LODGE OF TEXAS
     
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  10. Blaster

    Blaster Registered User

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    well done, Brother Jones! if i may be so bold as to offer a second cliff's notes version, similar to Mr. Graham-

    there seems to be no difference today amongst the "mainstream" Brethren.
    amongst Black Masons, AF&AM is clandestine, and F&AM (PHA) is regular.

    But criminals are clever, and there may be some who will use F&AM to try to trick people, so always look for "The Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of..." as the GL name format, with the 2 exceptions mentioned by Brother Jones. we often abbreviate it, such as MWPHGLTX.

    William Ross, W:.M:. Bayou City Lodge #228, Houston, MWPHGLTX.
     
  11. Spring TX MM

    Spring TX MM Premium Member

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    ⇧⇧Really?

    Aside from that, very good explanation towerbuilder7.
     
  12. towerbuilder7

    towerbuilder7 Moderator Premium Member

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    It's always good to know your WM reads and enjoys the posts presented, as I always mindful of how my posts represent ME, My Lodge, and MASONRY as a whole. I am eternally grateful to MY WM, because he is Man who sponsored my very own petition for HEALING, as I myself had been Initiated, Passed, and Raised in one of the MANY Black AF & AM Lodges here in Houston. He believed enough in me to offer his Token and Good Word so that I could enjoy TRUE RIGHTS, LIGHTS, and BENEFITS. BRO. JONES
     
  13. towerbuilder7

    towerbuilder7 Moderator Premium Member

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    Well, Brother Spring MM, allow me to clarify what my WM is conveying to the Brotherhood. What he means is among Mainstream Brethren, if a Man petitions and eventually becomes a member of a Lodge affiliated with the Grand Lodge of Texas, AF&AM, there is NO Doubt that his affiliation will be recognized as proper. We are not of the impression that the Clandestine Lodge issue is as MUCH an epidemic to Mainstream Masonry as it is to our PHA Masonry.

    The same is true for Brethren who join a PHA Lodge. A Man can rest assured his affiliation is of proper lineage and recognition when joining. However, in some cities, Clandestine Lodges are deeply entrenched in Black Communities; hence, A Man can be easily misled and Mis-informed AS I WAS, about the Origin and Lineage/Recognition of the Lodge and Grand Lodge where he is raised. I hope that provided some clarity. And, I would like to pose the question to my Mainstream Brethren----how prevalent is the Clandestine Lodge issue in Mainstream Masonry? Thanks, Bro. Jones
     
  14. Spring TX MM

    Spring TX MM Premium Member

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    Thank you Brother Jones, for the clarification. I was a bit confused but I probably just misinterpreted what he stated.

    S&F,
    Kyle
     
  15. Blaster

    Blaster Registered User

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    Hello Brother Kyle, what i meant was, there are both F&AM and AF&AM Grand Lodges here in America for the Mainstream Brethren. as far as I know, there is no difference in legitimacy or recognition based solely on 3 or 4 letter designations for Mainstream. for african-american freemasonry, there IS a difference. a Black AF&AM grand lodge is almost automatically clandestine, a Black F&AM grand lodge is not. all the recognized Prince Hall Grand Lodges are F&AM. i hope i made it a little more clear than before.

    Will.
     
  16. KO2134

    KO2134 Registered User

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    under what circumstances can there be a black af&am lodge that's regular
     
  17. Blaster

    Blaster Registered User

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    In America, none that I'm aware of. All the PHA grand lodges are established. Perhaps in another country where there are no PHA GLs, a mainstream GL can charter a lodge of African Americans, and if the mainstream GL is 4 letter, then the subordinate lodge would be also. That's the only scenario I can think of at the moment. Will.

    Edit: I suppose a mainstream GL in America, Texas for example, could grant a charter to a group of Black men to have a lodge, and then they would fall under their designation. Many 4 letter black masons in texas mistakenly think they're part of the GL of Texas because of the AF&AM.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2012
  18. scialytic

    scialytic Premium Member

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    Everyday is a learning day! Thank you very much for taking time to post in these forums. It has helped me repeatedly and I for one am very grateful for gentlemen like yourselves. Look forward to more reading...
     
  19. Blaster

    Blaster Registered User

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    You're welcome, glad I could assist.
    Will.
     
  20. Spring TX MM

    Spring TX MM Premium Member

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    Thank you Worshipful, for explaining it further. A day in which I learn something new is a successful day. I wasn't previously aware of the extent of the clandestine problem but now I will definitely be more on the guard.

    S&F,
    Kyle
    Spring Lodge #1174
     

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