What is the difference between af&am and f&am?

[Bloke]

.......We have to stop this nonsense. If I am a Mason and I am empowered and I have my dues paid and can produce a valid traveling card and I knock on your door, you MUST allow me entrance as much as you MUST come to my aid if needed. That’s Your obligation. Anything else you are not fulfilling your oath.

I will Be In Dallas in February in business. I would love to meet you both and I would love to introduce myself in a better format, allow myself to be tired and in turn try you. Perhaps then you will come to appreciate a brother more easily. My RIGHT is to travel

(and with further references to earlier posts)

Hi Brother ccampbell.

Today, this has nothing to do with skin colour - only Amity and Regularity. Here, in Australia, it has only ever concerned Amity and Regularity.

I'm a member of Lodges working under United Grand Lodge Victoria, founded in 1890 when local Freemasons working under the Grand Lodges of Scotland, Ireland and England (the later indeed being UGLE as mentioned in prior posts) formed their own Grand Lodge, and then wrote to those Grand Lodges and was recognised by them as legitimate - and we wrote to them as we saw them as legitimate, and it this "legitimacy" was mutually agreed - that's the core of regularity... mutual recognition as "regular" and the criteria used to do that.

Since that time, our Grand Lodge, and other Grand Lodges, have exchanged letters and agreed to recognise each other as "regular" and hence have become in "amity" which also means mutual visitation. I've received visiting Freemasons from every continent except Antarctica.

Hence MRichard and Glen Cook - as members of GLs recognised by mine, can indeed sit in lodge with me.

As a member of "MW Hiram Abif Grand Lodge for the State of Indiana" I could not admit you in my lodge without breaking my obligation in relation to sit only in a lodge which was "regular". Grand Lodge England, or any other Grand Lodge does not make that ruling - my own Grand Lodge does... and unless our GLs are in Amity, then, even if UGLE has you on or off a list is irrelevant, what is critical is if, as a Sovereign Grand Lodge, my Grand Lodge has you on its list of GLs it is Amity with. That's occurred because of mutual recognition.

Given the history of your GL, I would imagine, if it has of written to any regular GL requesting recognition, that request would have been declined, or likely perhaps even ignored.

As to whether I decided to help you, well, I would say that's on my own conscience. That is the case for all Freemasons initiated under UGLV because we render assistance "without detriment to ourselves or connections" and only "so far as my fairly be done".... where that line starts and stops is always a good discussion in a tyled lodge in the context of all obligations and ritual within your own jurisdiction..

I suggest you read the links supplied to further inform yourself of some of the issues on Regularity within the United States... while this might have been born of racism, the issues have become more complex and subtle. For many Freemasons in Countries like India or Africa - the idea of having Freemasonry divided on any lines other than merit (character, good and bad) , but especially to divide Freemasons on race or religion, is a foreign and unmasonic concept - but in the Nth American context, happened because of time and place - but the proud traditions and institutions created have transcended the divide and stand as testament to by long-dead Brothers' will to pursue Freemasonry for themselves and children.

From a completely different angle, I recommend this short article from an "irregular Freemason" which might help you understand sovereignty http://beacon190.ca/2017/02/11/i-am-regular/

 

[Warrior1256]

only Masons whose GLS are in amity may visit one another's lodges. The majority of us have taken a specific obligation regarding conversing on the secrets of Freemasonry with a clandestine Mason

I have no need to try you, as I am already aware of the status of your GL and because of that, may not converse on the secrets of Freemasonry with you.

What he said.

 

[dfreybur]

A Grand Lodge is legitimate if it has a Charter or dispensation from a grand body or competent jurisdiction empowering it to work. That's all that's required.

Actually that's not how the lineage requirement for regularity works.

Grand Lodges organize themselves from existing regular lodges operating in a territory that does not already have a Grand Lodge, or in a territory that has a Grand Lodge that allows others to form. This principle comes from United Grand Lodge of England/Scotland/Ireland operating lodges all over the world with some but not all joining new GLs as they organize. The founding lodges must themselves be chartered from Grand Lodges with regular lineage. In every case these GLs must be able to demonstrate lineage back to UGLE, GLofIreland, GLofScotland or the Moderns or Antients before they United.

Grand lodges don't charter other GLs. Grand lodges charter lodges. Some of those lodges might organize into their own GLs. Grand lodge recognize other GLs.

What you have been taught about GLs of course works for your own jurisdiction, as it must. You are of course sincere and probably every member of your own lodge is sincere.

Clandestine lodges are forces for good in their communities. Clandestine members are good people. They generally don't know how regular lineage works and why it's necessary.

Please look up the nearest regular and recognize PHA lodge and apply for "healing". They will welcome you. Then you will be able to visit anywhere in the world as you claim to have already done.

The history of why clandestine lodges proliferated varies. In the US it's a disgraceful history of racism. Now that's obsolete and it's time for members to consolidate into the regular lineage lodges. Please come to a home.

 

[Warrior1256]

Please look up the nearest regular and recognize PHA lodge and apply for "healing". They will welcome you. Then you will be able to visit anywhere in the world as you claim to have already done.

True.

The history of why clandestine lodges proliferated varies. In the US it's a disgraceful history of racism. Now that's obsolete and it's time for members to consolidate into the regular lineage lodges. Please come to a home.

Absolutely.

 

[Brother JC]

@ccampbell While I’m sure your lodge does good work you must understand that you will not be able to visit any Grand Lodge of (insert state here), nor any MWPHGL of (insert state here). Just because someone calling themselves a “grand lodge” prints a piece of paper doesn’t mean it is valid. There are several Brothers here who used to be members of irregular grand lodges and have moved to recognized, regular grand lodges. I’m not telling you how to live your life, but if you want to visit the majority of the lodges in the world you will need to change your allegiance.

 

[Glen Cook]

Actually that's not how the lineage requirement for regularity works.

Grand Lodges organize themselves from existing regular lodges operating in a territory that does not already have a Grand Lodge, or in a territory that has a Grand Lodge that allows others to form. This principle comes from United Grand Lodge of England/Scotland/Ireland operating lodges all over the world with some but not all joining new GLs as they organize. The founding lodges must themselves be chartered from Grand Lodges with regular lineage. In every case these GLs must be able to demonstrate lineage back to UGLE, GLofIreland, GLofScotland or the Moderns or Antients before they United.

Grand lodges don't charter other GLs. Grand lodges charter lodges. Some of those lodges might organize into their own GLs. Grand lodge recognize other GLs.

What you have been taught about GLs of course works for your own jurisdiction, as it must. You are of course sincere and probably every member of your own lodge is sincere.

Clandestine lodges are forces for good in their communities. Clandestine members are good people. They generally don't know how regular lineage works and why it's necessary.

Please look up the nearest regular and recognize PHA lodge and apply for "healing". They will welcome you. Then you will be able to visit anywhere in the world as you claim to have already done.

The history of why clandestine lodges proliferated varies. In the US it's a disgraceful history of racism. Now that's obsolete and it's time for members to consolidate into the regular lineage lodges. Please come to a home.

Well, it has been known outside the US for a GL to found another. The GL of Bulgaria was reported to have been founded by the GLdF (which at one time was considered regular) by charter.

The new GL of Azerbaijan is reported to have been issued a charter by DC, Turkey, and Russia.

 

[dfreybur]

Well, it has been known outside the US for a GL to found another. The GL of Bulgaria was reported to have been founded by the GLdF (which at one time was considered regular) by charter.

The new GL of Azerbaijan is reported to have been issued a charter by DC, Turkey, and Russia.

So never in the US then. Thanks for the education.