What would you like to see changed in the Masonic experience?

[dfreybur]

UGLE is sometimes referred to as the Premier "Grand" Lodge, but it is not a term with which I am comfortable.

I take Premier to mean the 1717 organization that predated the split then union between the Moderns and the Antients. As such I take it to mean the Moderns, an organization that was subsumed at the point of union.

 

[LAMason]

I take Premier to mean the 1717 organization that predated the split then union between the Moderns and the Antients. As such I take it to mean the Moderns, an organization that was subsumed at the point of union.

That has been my understanding also, I may be wrong but I have always thought of it in terms of modern day business/non profit combinations and thought of it as a consolidation where both the Moderns Grand Lodge and Antients Grand Lodge ceased to exist and an entirely new successor Grand Lodge was created, the UGLE, in which case it would not be proper for the UGLE to be referred to as the Premier Grand Lodge. However if you think of it as a merger where the Antients Grand Lodge was dissolved and absorbed by the Moderns Grand Lodge with a name change to UGLE, then it would be proper for the UGLE to be referred to as the Premier Grand Lodge.

 

[Glen Cook]

Note an example of the usage by UGLE: http://www.ugle.org.uk/freemasons-hall/the-history-of-freemasons-hall

 

[dalinkou]

Similar to myself. Dec 2012 and Feb 2013 for me. I will tell Brothers that my one regret so far is how quick I moved through the first three degrees. I wish I had purposely spent more time as an EA and FC. After all, you are a MM for life, but and EA/FC for a woefully short period. A lot of lessons to be learned that are sadly skipped over.

Exactly. I spoke to an EA on the first Thursday in April. He was maybe 1/3 of the way through his memory work and his goal was to be a MM by May. Seriously.

The kind of man you become has little to do with your effectiveness at memory exercises, nor has it much to do with how fast you can make a beeline over to an appendant body. While some may skip the finer points of each degree, it should be more by conscious choice than by just fast-tracking over the lessons from the beginning.

 

[LAMason]

Note an example of the usage by UGLE: http://www.ugle.org.uk/freemasons-hall/the-history-of-freemasons-hall

Please explain.

 

[cemab4y]

Exactly. I spoke to an EA on the first Thursday in April. He was maybe 1/3 of the way through his memory work and his goal was to be a MM by May. Seriously.

The kind of man you become has little to do with your effectiveness at memory exercises, nor has it much to do with how fast you can make a beeline over to an appendant body. While some may skip the finer points of each degree, it should be more by conscious choice than by just fast-tracking over the lessons from the beginning.

My GL requires 30 days minimum between degree work. And there is a one-year maximum time (some men take an EA and then drop out). When I was doing the memorization, I decided to get some Masonic books, and do my own self-study. I am glad I did, I learned some additional Masonic vocabulary, and a small amount of Masonic history. In European lodges (I lived in Europe for three years), some of the lodges have a one-year minimum time between Craft degrees.

Albert Pike, when he modernized and refined the Scottish Rite (southern jurisdiction) he suggested that there be one year of study between each of the 29 degrees! This proposal never was adopted.

I do not know if there should even be an arbitrary time limit between each of the Craft degrees. I would be in favor of each new Mason, getting some classroom instruction, and also some on-line instructions in the history and background of Freemasonry, and the specifics of the degrees.

 

[Glen Cook]

Please explain.

Usage of the term premier grand lodge by UGLE. I find yet in common usage in that jurisdiction.

 

[cemab4y]

In KY, the Grand Master writes a monthly message, which is (normally) published on the front page of the (KY) "Masonic Home Journal" . You can read some back issues at:

https://grandlodgeofkentucky.org/?wpfb_dl=133

If you read the March 2015 issue, you will see that KY has recently concluded their first Video Conference on Masonic Education. The GL had some technical glitches, but the GM stated that it was an overall success. I could not be more delighted! I am glad to see the GL of KY is adopting new technology. The GL of KY will have at least one more video conference, this time the GL will discuss proposed changes in Masonic Legislation, prior to the upcoming Grand Communication.

This is marvelous! I hope that their experiences will be fruitful, and other Grand Lodges will emulate this. The great thing about having 51 Grand Lodges, is that there are 51 laboratories, where new ideas can be tried, and if successful, then emulated by other Grand Lodges.

 

[LAMason]

Usage of the term premier grand lodge by UGLE. I find yet in common usage in that jurisdiction.

The only instance I see Premier Grand Lodge on the link is used in reference to building a central hall in 1769 which would have predated the combination of the 2 Grand Lodges. I see you are a member of the UGLE, so you would know if it is common for them to refer to the UGLE as such. Of course it is not of much importance, but I find such information interesting.

Thanks

 

[Glen Cook]

The only instance I see Premier Grand Lodge on the link is used in reference to building a central hall in 1769 which would have predated the combination of the 2 Grand Lodges. I see you are a member of the UGLE, so you would know if it is common for them to refer to the UGLE as such. Of course it is not of much importance, but I find such information interesting.

Thanks

Or, maybe I was so busy worrying about a piece of ritual I wasn't paying attention

 

[dalinkou]

My GL requires 30 days minimum between degree work. And there is a one-year maximum time (some men take an EA and then drop out). When I was doing the memorization, I decided to get some Masonic books, and do my own self-study. I am glad I did, I learned some additional Masonic vocabulary, and a small amount of Masonic history. In European lodges (I lived in Europe for three years), some of the lodges have a one-year minimum time between Craft degrees.

Albert Pike, when he modernized and refined the Scottish Rite (southern jurisdiction) he suggested that there be one year of study between each of the 29 degrees! This proposal never was adopted.

I do not know if there should even be an arbitrary time limit between each of the Craft degrees. I would be in favor of each new Mason, getting some classroom instruction, and also some on-line instructions in the history and background of Freemasonry, and the specifics of the degrees.

The standard in Texas is similar; there are some very short time cycles required between each degree, with a one-year maximum time for the EA. And we also lose a lot of EAs as well.

The problem is that many seem to think that it is just a memorization club, and they race through without ever wondering why the lessons are important.

 

[coachn]

...The problem is that many seem to think that it is just a memorization club, and they race through without ever wondering why the lessons are important.

But it is not a problem since it is just a memorization club for many who could not care any less about all its other potentials.

 

[cemab4y]

But it is not a problem since it is just a memorization club for many who could not care any less about all its other potentials.

I have never met anyone who thought that Freemasonry was a "memorization club". But I can see how if a man is given a degree, and then shoved right into a class where he has to memorize, without being told the "why" behind the memorization, he might feel this way. This is why, I have always been in favor of masonic education (for newly made Masons, especially).

We have got to work with new Masons "upstream", and make their first year in the Craft relevant and interesting. If we can work with new Masons, and assist them in learning Masonic history, ritual, and the background of our organization, then we will have them for a solid Masonic career.

I would love see a "holistic" approach. New Masons should be given classroom instruction, AND on-line instruction in a wide spectrum of Masonic topics. Some of these can be:

-The history of Freemasonry
-The history of the Grand Lodge, and the lodge he has joined.
-An introduction to some of the appendant bodies
-Masonic vocabulary and terminology
-How Freemasonry has influenced our national history, and our society
-How to serve as an officer.

In the EA degree, we are charged to improve ourselves in Masonry. I believe sincerely, that lodges have the ability to give a new Mason the working tools, to do exactly that.

 

[coachn]

I have never met anyone who thought that Freemasonry was a "memorization club".

Perhaps expanding your circle might change this. ;-)

But I can see how if a man is given a degree, and then shoved right into a class where he has to memorize, without being told the "why" behind the memorization, he might feel this way.

I asked "why" throughout my first three degrees and got very little other than "just memorize it and it shall all become clear after a while". I finally wised up and asked how long were they in the craft and was it clear to them. The subject was changed soon thereafter. The why is rarely explained and when it is, it is usually something that makes little to no sense in relation to what is being memorized.

This is why, I have always been in favor of masonic education (for newly made Masons, especially).

WOW! ME TOO! Only I think that you and I might have very little agreement as to what "Masonic" education actually is.

We have got to work with new Masons "upstream", and make their first year in the Craft relevant and interesting. If we can work with new Masons, and assist them in learning Masonic history, ritual, and the background of our organization, then we will have them for a solid Masonic career.

That sounds awesome until the rubber hits the pavement. Masonic history is all too often a fabricated mishmash of previous member's conjectures or attempts to make the organization more than it actually is. Ritual and background follow a close second to this. And as far as a masonic career, this is a volunteer organization and it was never intended to be a man's career.

I would love see a "holistic" approach.

That would be awesome, once the devil's in the details get beaten out. That would be an unbelievable undertaking.

New Masons should be given classroom instruction, AND on-line instruction in a wide spectrum of Masonic topics. Some of these can be:

1-The history of Freemasonry
2-The history of the Grand Lodge, and the lodge he has joined.
3-An introduction to some of the appendant bodies
4-Masonic vocabulary and terminology
5-How Freemasonry has influenced our national history, and our society
6-How to serve as an officer.

1- Which history?!?! The fabricate ones that connect the organization to every possible occurrence of Stonecraft-Mystery Schools-Cabala-Alchemy-Hermetisism-etc. OR the one where four London lodges got together to form a Grand lodge for the purposes of having quarterly dinner parties?
2- How would this make him a better man?
3- Why? So he can get further distracted from working upon his Ashlar?
4- Would you include how this very same lexicon being taught differs in reality?
5- Would this be shared with him before or after his degrees and his Betterment Work?
6- What if he has no desire to run the gym and merely wants to work out?

In the EA degree, we are charged to improve ourselves in Masonry.

Yes, unfortunately, what is supported by the organization is only improving the members in organizational support.

I believe sincerely, that lodges have the ability to give a new Mason the working tools, to do exactly that.

Yes, but do they have the intellectual knowhow to teach each member how to use these Working Tools Masterfully?[/QUOTE]

 

[Glen Cook]

But it is not a problem since it is just a memorization club for many who could not care any less about all its other potentials.

Reference, a comment in another forum in which the Brother decried "pointless ritual" and argued shortening opening because many members no longer knew the meaning of the "hand gestures" which were part of the opening. They had memorized, but not understood.

Note, I find that memorization can be -a step- in the understanding process for me: when I know the words, then I can contemplate them.

 

[coachn]

Reference, a comment in another forum in which the Brother decried "pointless ritual" and argued shortening opening because many members no longer knew the meaning of the "hand gestures" which were part of the opening. They had memorized, but not understood.

Note, I find that memorization can be -a step- in the understanding process for me: when I know the words, then I can contemplate them.

So do I, but such a finding shall not occur for those who could not care less. That is the problem, and the challenge to all who Enter.

 

[cemab4y]

Perhaps expanding your circle might change this. ;-)

--In my experience, there is no memorization, after the Craft degree lectures. If a man jumps to the conclusion that Freemasonry is a memorization club, then he is wrong.



I asked "why" throughout my first three degrees and got very little other than "just memorize it and it shall all become clear after a while". I finally wised up and asked how long were they in the craft and was it clear to them. The subject was changed soon thereafter. The why is rarely explained and when it is, it is usually something that makes little to no sense in relation to what is being memorized.

--When I was in class, learning the lectures, I never thought to ask "why?". I just took it as a necessity, did the memorization, and then moved on. BTW- In 1982, memorizing the MM lecture was optional. BUT- You had to have it, if you wished to serve as an officer. And I got a nice diploma. I have never had the honor of serving the Craft as an officer. A year after my MM degree, I was sent to Africa.



WOW! ME TOO! Only I think that you and I might have very little agreement as to what "Masonic" education actually is.

--Masonic education is a wide topic. Each man defines education a bit differently.



That sounds awesome until the rubber hits the pavement. Masonic history is all too often a fabricated mishmash of previous member's conjectures or attempts to make the organization more than it actually is. Ritual and background follow a close second to this. And as far as a masonic career, this is a volunteer organization and it was never intended to be a man's career.

--This is why Grand Lodges and Lodges should develop a comprehensive course, consisting of both classroom instruction, and on-line training. Masonic history courses can consist of the following:

The true history of early operative masonry, building of the cathedrals and public buildings in Europe, etc. And the history of how the four lodges cam together and formed the first Grand lodge in 1717. How Freemasonry arrived in the new world, by way of British Military Lodges. etc.

Of course, Masonry is a volunteer organization. But I use the term "career" in an elastic sense. We "labor" in quarries, symbolically. We "receive" Master's wages. And many men donate thousands of hours to the Craft, freely. Some men serve as officers, and that is hard work, where you must endure criticism. Service to the Craft is a volunteer "career".



That would be awesome, once the devil's in the details get beaten out. That would be an unbelievable undertaking.



1- Which history?!?! The fabricate ones that connect the organization to every possible occurrence of Stonecraft-Mystery Schools-Cabala-Alchemy-Hermetisism-etc. OR the one where four London lodges got together to form a Grand lodge for the purposes of having quarterly dinner parties?

--See my remarks above. By "history", I mean a comprehensive approach, "Macro" history about the origins of the Craft, and "Micro" history, about the Grand Lodge and the specific Lodge of the new Mason.

2- How would this make him a better man?

--Learning about Masonry, will not in itself make someone a better man. BUT- If a man appreciates the background and history of the Craft, and the impact that Freemasonry has had on our nation, and the world, it could encourage him to be a more knowledgeable Mason.

"Knowledge alone, is power" Sun-Tzu

3- Why? So he can get further distracted from working upon his Ashlar?

--There are over 100 appendant and concordant bodies in the Masonic family of organizations. Every Mason should have an understanding of the different organizations. I like to think of them as a "cafeteria" of organizations, where each person can choose to participate. One result, of having a knowledge of the appendant bodies: A new Mason could learn about the Order of DeMolay. He would look around his town, and find that there was no DeMolay nearby. Then he could start a chapter. Young men would join up. 90% of DeMolay graduates go into Craft Masonry. His lodge would get some new members. Not immediately, but some years later. And some young men, would get the benefits of DeMolay membership. All because someone took the time to teach the new Mason, about DeMolay.

"Anyone can count the seeds in an apple. Only God can count the apples in a seed" author unknown

4- Would you include how this very same lexicon being taught differs in reality?

--Masonic vocabulary is charming and baroque. There are many archaic terms used in Masonry, which not all men are conversant.


5- Would this be shared with him before or after his degrees and his Betterment Work?

--As I stated previously. Every new Mason should have a basic grounding in how Masonry has affected our national history and character. Many of the founding fathers were Masons. Their impact on the Constitution, and our splendid traditions of religious freedom, were drawn directly or indirectly from Masonic traditions. The exact time that a man obtains this insight and knowledge, does not matter.


6- What if he has no desire to run the gym and merely wants to work out?


--Not every Mason will have the desire or the opportunity to serve the Craft as an officer. BUT- Every new Mason should have a basic understanding of the procedures to be an officer. Whether a man ever serves as an officer does not matter. Our officers are elected by nomination and majority vote, and every Mason needs to understand the basic procedure. If he never serves as an officer, fine. He will definitely be involved in the selection process.




Yes, unfortunately, what is supported by the organization is only improving the members in organizational support.



Yes, but do they have the intellectual knowhow to teach each member how to use these Working Tools Masterfully?

--Not all lodges will have the knowledge or ability to teach new Masons these skills. This is where Grand Lodges can develop classroom and on-line training, to assist new Masons (and more experienced Masons) in how to use the "Working Tools"!

[/QUOTE]

 

[coachn]

coachn said: ↑
Perhaps expanding your circle might change this. ;-)

--In my experience, there is no memorization, after the Craft degree lectures. If a man jumps to the conclusion that Freemasonry is a memorization club, then he is wrong.

Yes, he would be, but it is far too common an assessment by far too many who come and go.

coachn said: ↑
I asked "why" throughout my first three degrees and got very little other than "just memorize it and it shall all become clear after a while". I finally wised up and asked how long were they in the craft and was it clear to them. The subject was changed soon thereafter. The why is rarely explained and when it is, it is usually something that makes little to no sense in relation to what is being memorized.

--When I was in class, learning the lectures, I never thought to ask "why?". I just took it as a necessity, did the memorization, and then moved on. BTW- In 1982, memorizing the MM lecture was optional. BUT- You had to have it, if you wished to serve as an officer. And I got a nice diploma. I have never had the honor of serving the Craft as an officer. A year after my MM degree, I was sent to Africa.

In my jurisdiction, it is still required to advance.

coachn said: ↑ WOW! ME TOO! Only I think that you and I might have very little agreement as to what "Masonic" education actually is.

--Masonic education is a wide topic. Each man defines education a bit differently.

Yes, you recommend that it be provided. How does one decide on what is provided?

coachn said: ↑
That sounds awesome until the rubber hits the pavement. Masonic history is all too often a fabricated mishmash of previous member's conjectures or attempts to make the organization more than it actually is. Ritual and background follow a close second to this. And as far as a masonic career, this is a volunteer organization and it was never intended to be a man's career.

--This is why Grand Lodges and Lodges should develop a comprehensive course, consisting of both classroom instruction, and on-line training. Masonic history courses can consist of the following:

The true history of early operative masonry, building of the cathedrals and public buildings in Europe, etc. And the history of how the four lodges cam together and formed the first Grand lodge in 1717. How Freemasonry arrived in the new world, by way of British Military Lodges. etc.

Would your suggestion include how providing the true history of early operative masonry has nothing to do with freemasonry?

Of course, Masonry is a volunteer organization. But I use the term "career" in an elastic sense. We "labor" in quarries, symbolically. We "receive" Master's wages. And many men donate thousands of hours to the Craft, freely. Some men serve as officers, and that is hard work, where you must endure criticism. Service to the Craft is a volunteer "career".

But we don't labor in the quarries symbolically. We receive no wages. Master's wages can't even be agreed upon as to what that phrase actually means. We put on plays and run boring business meetings al in the name of preservation of things that next to no one understands.

coachn said: ↑ That would be awesome, once the devil's in the details get beaten out. That would be an unbelievable undertaking.

1- Which history?!?! The fabricate ones that connect the organization to every possible occurrence of Stonecraft-Mystery Schools-Cabala-Alchemy-Hermetisism-etc. OR the one where four London lodges got together to form a Grand lodge for the purposes of having quarterly dinner parties?

--See my remarks above. By "history", I mean a comprehensive approach, "Macro" history about the origins of the Craft, and "Micro" history, about the Grand Lodge and the specific Lodge of the new Mason.

I saw them and made comment.

coachn said: ↑
2- How would this make him a better man?

--Learning about Masonry, will not in itself make someone a better man. BUT- If a man appreciates the background and history of the Craft, and the impact that Freemasonry has had on our nation, and the world, it could encourage him to be a more knowledgeable Mason.

"We have all the light we need, we just need to put it in practice." - Albert Pike

And so very few actually apply what little light they have been provided.

"Knowledge alone, is power" Sun-Tzu

That's bogus. Knowledge is inventory and inventory alone. You must apply it appropriately for it to empower in any way.

coachn said: ↑
3- Why? So he can get further distracted from working upon his Ashlar?

--There are over 100 appendant and concordant bodies in the Masonic family of organizations. Every Mason should have an understanding of the different organizations.

Says who? And for what reason?

I like to think of them as a "cafeteria" of organizations, where each person can choose to participate. One result, of having a knowledge of the appendant bodies: A new Mason could learn about the Order of

I know you have not finished your thought here, but here some food for thought: A cafeteria that doesn't nurture is harmful to those seeking nourishment.

Freemasonry has huge hurdles to overcome. The first is getting its history cleaned up of all the bogus conjectures that plague its archives. The second is coming clean as to what it actually does for men rather than continuing the games. Maybe after these actions, it can start actually supporting men in becoming better.

 

[Glen Cook]

CM: "In my experience, there is no memorization, after the Craft degree lectures. "

??? You mean other than funeral ceremonies, installation, master's ob, closing charge and, as someone said, 100 side orders (a number I question)?

 

[Glen Cook]

...

The first is getting its history cleaned up of all the bogus conjectures that plague its archives.

To that point, see "Origins of Speculative Masonry" by John Palmer, Rocky Mountain Mason, Vol. 2, Issue 2, 2015