Why the difference time to be raised in Latin countries???

Discussion in 'International Freemasonry' started by Akiles, Sep 2, 2015.

  1. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    I've been a Freemason for 13 years and have still not learned all I need from the First Degree nor have my brothers taught me all I need to know.

    If you value Freemasonry, I dont think you would support a revolving door. We also have not less than 12 week to FC and 52 to MM - but don't have the pressure of wanting to make MMs to let them participate in lodge because we open in the First Degree. The last MM I raised has been entered about two years before... we also do not have maximum amounts of times between degrees which means we have have a EA or FC who pays his dues sit on that degree for years or even decades...
     
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  2. Akiles

    Akiles Registered User

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    It is ok!!!!.

    Now I'm a MM, but I agree with you, it is necessary some time to go up.
     
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  3. Classical

    Classical Premium Member

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    From my favorite novel:
    “You have been given questions to which you cannot be given answers. You will have to live them out - perhaps a little at a time.'
    And how long is that going to take?'
    I don't know. As long as you live, perhaps.'
    That could be a long time.'
    I will tell you a further mystery,' he said. 'It may take longer.”
    Wendell Berry, Jayber Crow
     
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  4. hanzosbm

    hanzosbm Premium Member

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    Unfortunately, there is a bit of a self perpetuating cycle at play here. Brothers who never bothered to really understand the work in the first place, place no value on it, and therefore encourage the next generation to rush through it under the impression that there is nothing worth slowing down for. In CA, the only proficiency required is the O&O and the grip & word. THAT'S IT! Some lodges might require more, but I could learn that proficiency in a single day if I really applied myself. Yet, here I am, 7 years later, still barely scratching the surface of the EA degree. I acknowledge that not all men really care for a deeper understanding, but we are robbing the men who do of the opportunity and then forgiving ourselves under the guise of 'they can go back and learn it on their own later if they want'.
    And we wonder why we can't retain members...
     
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  5. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    Help me out brother; "O&O" ?
     
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  6. hanzosbm

    hanzosbm Premium Member

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    Sorry. Oath & Obligation.
     
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  7. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    Thanks !
     
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  8. hiram357

    hiram357 Registered User

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    I think requiring Brothers to wait just for the sake of waiting is probably not the right answer. But, waiting, along with an intensive education program and fellowship can have great benefits. In my German Lodge, it takes about a year between each degree. During that time, the Brothers complete an education program and are required to give presentations on Masonic and other topics to the Lodge. Once they become Fellowcrafts, they are expected to make visits (at least a certain number, of which I am not sure) , where/when they can, to other Lodges. In my opinion, this creates a greater investment in the Craft, and should lead to greater activity once the Brother is raised.
     
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  9. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    Do you think or is there evidance of this burning out EAs and FCs? As for the visiting what if a FC is a working man or military man and doesnt have the time to go to other lodges? Its hard enough for me to make it to all of my lodges meeting let alone other lodges....

    I dont think that these requirements are a bad thing at all, I would have loved to have been made to research things.
     
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  10. pointwithinacircle2

    pointwithinacircle2 Rapscallion Premium Member

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    Very well, I command you to research things! LOL. Actually, your statement brings up an excellent point that is eminently worthy of discussion. What is it about research that infuses it with value? Is it that the investigator gains knowledge? Is it the skill and confidence gained by preparing and presenting presentations to the Lodge? Is it the fellowship and friendship that one develops as a result of shared effort? Is it the example set by the Lodge members that they find meaning and value in their Masonic pursuits? Is there some other possibility?
     
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  11. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    What i meant was that, I was kinda lost after my EA and before my FC and the same untill after my rasing and turning in my MM prof. It wasnt till after that that I found this site and started to gain outside perspective and looking more in to certain subjects. If my lodge and required me to make a presentation I would have loved that. I have since done a couple presentations in Open lodge. I am working on memorizing ON YONDER BOOK so i can present it at a raising we have coming up later this year.

    to answer your questions I would say that it is all of those and more.
     
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  12. SimonM

    SimonM Registered User

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    In our lodge you are required to make three short presentations for each degree.

    The first one is just a week or two after you got the new degree to tell about the first impression. Since you dont know anything there is no requirement that you have to hade done any reasearch, just you impressions and what you at the time felt most significant for you, 3-5 min.

    The second presentation should be after about half the time in the degree, which for us is after about 6 months as a EA, FC or MM. Then you should make a presentation of one detail of the ritual of your current degree. Whereas the first should focus on emotional side, this should be an intellectual excercise where you delve deep into the symbolism.

    The third presentation at the end of your time in the current degree, so usually 12 months after you recieved it. Then you should be able to do a presentation about the whole degree. Your idea then and there what the degree is really about, and give a psychological, ethical and a religious perspective on the symbolism.

    When you have done all three you are allowed to get the next degree. This is repeated though the craft degrees so you give in total 9 presentations. In my experience this gives a very solid foundation for the new brother to start up his work as a mason.
     
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  13. memphisrite

    memphisrite Registered User

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    Most mason's never get to understand even the first degree.
     
  14. YHWH

    YHWH Registered User

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    in Italy it is customary to understand and have the Degrees internalized through a diligent Ritual working, physical work (preparation of the Temple), the study of the Lectures, the attendance of the Brethren, the related cultural initiatives, and this takes time.
     

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